[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I used to be one of the people duped by the official line, I don't accept anything blindly.

Yet you are absolutely 100% convinced that there was a conspiracy. You have abandoned all impartiality, and can't discuss this rationally at all, and you can't examine or entertain the slightest possibility that you might be wrong. That is not true for me or for most of the people you're arguing with here.

Just angers me to see so many willing to trust an entity(the government) that is not at all trustworthy.Citizens who hold faith in government remind me of an abused woman who stays with her abuser no matter what, and supports him no matter what.

That may apply to a large portion of the population, and even to some of the people you talk to in your life. Are you saying it applies to the majority here? Are you saying it applies to me? Are you saying that not one of the people disagreeing with you here is capable of making his own observations? If not, then you need to look at all the options and discuss things less passionately and more rationally. If so, then you need to apologize to people for saying they insulted you, for if you see us that way then you insult a large number of individuals by lumping us together as a group; a group which you say is blindly following the government, which is patently not true.

The disinformation campaign has worked to a degree, it has muddied the waters enough t have 40% of american people believing the official story.

We're not talking about 40% of the American people. We're talking about Tarjak, August, Privateer, Steelhead, Dread Knot, Bilge Rat, Vienna, and Myself. Are you saying we (at least the Americans on that list) are all dupes blindly following the Government Line? If so, then you insult us. If not, then quit talking about people who mean nothing to any of us and stick with the point.

Like Kevin costner said in JFK(as Jim Garrison) , government claims can prove the magic bullet etc with fancy physics.

I've already shown you that it only takes a slight change in their positions and suddenly your "magic bullet" is travelling in a straight line. You didn't answer then, and I'm wondering if you'll ever take that bit of evidence and show that it's wrong. I have consistently addressed each of your points and shown that there are other possible answers, and reasonable ones. You have consistently avoided answering those points and gone right back to your derisive generic dismissals of anything that doesn't fit your personal take on the subject.

True, but theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang off a cliff with it's tail tied to a daisy.

Which is a nice diversion into the derisive dismissal I just mentioned. Are you capable of having a reasonable discussion without resorting to insult? The physics here aren't theoretical at all. The bullet was not magic, and no one but the conspiracy theorists are claiming it was. Just look again at the picture I posted.

Used your own judgement and some common sense.

Are you saying I'm not? Again, don't be accusing anyone else of insulting you when you resort to demeaning tactics like that. I say I've been using my own judgement all along. I don't believe the government, and I don't believe you. I don't know the answers, but you have failed time and again to prove your case. Tell me again why I should listen to you?

The Zapruder film is what pushed me away from believing the official story, as it did many American's after the saw it, which is a reason it was kept from the public for so long.

The Zapruder film was released almost immediately. What was withheld were the few crucial frames. The reason is most likely that they were considered far too graphic for public consumption.

The disinformation campaign to discredit people was wide ranging

I've read most of the testimony. A great many of those witnesses deserve to be discredited. Some do not, but many of their statements disagree with the others.

, much as is done today if someone stands up.Snowden is a great example, did a patriotic thing but the government and many in the media(on the government's take) tried to portray him as a traitor, most American's did not see him as that, but far too many do.This is how in this era they manage to make the good guys seem like the bad guys, they know there are a large part of the population who trust the officials, blindly in many cases.

Would you please stop wandering into other, off-topic discussions? You're trying to prove by example, and you're not doing a very good job of it. Stick to the real points.

How people can watch that film and not see what 60% of americans see, I have no idea.

And yet several people here have watched the film repeatedly over the last few days, and come to completely different conclusions than you have. How do you know you're not the one who is mistaken? Appealing to "60% of Americans" is appealing to the authority of the majority. The majority is often wrong, and saying that the majority is right or the minority is right is not a point at all. Opinion means nothing, only facts. You like to take that line of argument far too much.

I trust my own judgement, based on what I see, the evidence there is, and the words of those who were there, and common sense.

As do I. The difference is that you firmly believe that your judgement is the correct one and anyone who disagrees must be a dupe of the authorities, or just plain stupid. My point, as I've tried to tell you many times, is that you don't "know" any more than I do. You believe you do know, to the point of absolute insistence, and anyone who doesn't agree with you needs to be dismissed and insulted. You don't listen to anyone else's points, especially mine, and you come back again and again with the same claims, many of which have been shown to be explainable in a different context. You don't seem to care about getting at the truth, you are convinced you already have it. As I've said before, if you think you know anything you have removed all possibility of learning anything new. If you "know" you are right, you remove all possibility of ever finding out that you might be wrong.

Usually when people have something to hide, they make things complicated and muddy the waters, hoping the truth gets lost in there.Age old tactic of the government, they have done it many times, most recent with obamacare.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And again you try to prove one thing by bringing up another. It proves nothing, and it makes you look desperate.