SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

Bubblehead1980 · 09-29-13, 12:16 PM

Okay, I am going to try to clear this up once and for all...

There are plenty of convoys in RSRD, but it does depend on what you year and your patrol area. I just finished a patrol in June-August 1944 in East China Sea, I ran into 6 convoys.Once was a tanker convoy I added, but 5 were RSRD convoys.

The problem the stock game and other mods that use random generated traffic gives as a first impression to a player is that there were always convoys in the logical places at logical times and this is simply not true.The Japanese did not take ASW seriously for a large part of the war so convoys were rare in 42, and early to mid 43.There was no dedicated, centralized convoy coordination for most part, it was left up to regional commanders. After serious losses were suffered they started building more escort vessels, what the British/Americans called corvettes and Destroyer Escort types.Convoys were much more common by Fall of 1943. IJN suffered heavy losses in late 43 and especially in January/February 1944.This lead to an actual more centralized effort in convoy organization being pursued, case in point was the Take Ichi Convoy( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Ichi_convoy)attacked by USS Jack and Gurnard in April/May 1944.

RSRD reflects history by using a source that documented a large percentage of convoys and put them into the mod. Yes, some are missing that were there and were not documented for whatever reason.Prime example is in 1944, the Singapore/Japan seas lanes running tanker convoys east of Hainan Island then via Luzon Straits/Bashi channel, west of Ryuku Islands to various ports in Japan is empty in 1944 except for singles.This is wrong as this was a major shipping lane with plenty of tanker traffic.I added some convoys there myself which will be included in my add on for RSRD.

Now, if you are playing 1942, don't except to see a lot of convoys because fact is, there were not many convoys.There were a few but a lot of ships running alone or in pairs unescorted.1943, 1944 and first part of 45 there are a ton of convoys, especially in key areas.They die off in 45 as did in real life as shipping losses were many.Their routes also change, in late 44 and into 45, really dont find convoys on open ocean like in real life, they hug the coast for most part for protection.This requires some changes in tactics. Running TMO along with RSRD? This is pretty much suicide if attack submerged unless find some deeper spots and sees are rough, then you have somewhat of a chance.Night surface attack is your best bet but then that is not always an option without some fixes for realism.Suggest download my radar fix, brings IJN radar down to more realistic performance.

Look up the maps but they are not always a help.Just open up the traffic with the Mission Editor, if you just look to see where the routes area in that time period, it is not cheating.Same thing as looking at a map. I speak to this as someone who when I first began using RSRD, made the same comments and had same feelings concerning convoys.I remember the frustration of going on patrol and thinking there are no convoys.Another thing to consider is that RSRD seeks to simulate history by not always assigning player to a hot area but the underlying plan in many cases is to have player in the right area so that may encountered a big prize.

Example, I have been assigned to cold areas, encountered nothing, but at end of 30 days in area, here comes a carrier or heavy cruiser, with escorts.Worth the wait ? Yes. Sometimes I encounter them but was not in position to attack and they got away, it happened in RL and RSRD simulates this. After getting a feel for this I checked the traffic files, ran the simulation with the ME and was like "Ok, I get it now".Fact is, not every sub got a hot area on each patrol and not every sub was able to rack up tonnage on each patrol.

I simply can not run this sim without RSRD these days, I find other traffic "gamey" and unrealistic.Even though TMO's campaign is pretty good.I like that I am attacking a convoy that spawns once and will not respawn.This gives convoys variety in number of escorts, ships etc.This also in many cases, prevents unrealistic patrols.There are times when may run into a convoy early on, take out 3 or 4 ships, then that is the last one you see, so you spend the next 20-30 days in area just looking.This was how it was in many cases but you still bagged 4 ships, a successful patrol by any standards.

That is another thing, player is not limited in this sim as skippers were in rea life by things such as staying in your assigned area.To prevent overlap, confusion and possible friendly fire, subs were usually forbidden from moving into another area without permission, some exceptions could be made though. Player chooses to play realistically, they will stay in area but if so chooses, can just go way out.I stay within my area, maybe go out of it a little to get a last attack in on a convoy before it's gone.Due to game limitations, there is a honor system sometimes, such as with refits.Well if you want you can pass withing 10 miles of a port, click refit, get a new load of fuel and torpedoes. Others, if choose, can actually pull into port, up to a pier and wait a few hours(with TC of course) then depart.

I will conclude this "rant" but bottom line, there are plenty of convoys in RSRD, takes time and patience.Study maps, open up the traffic layer for the desired year and see the routes.Dont want to cheat,? dont check the dates they depart or run the simulation, just look at the routes.Don't give up, I did not and now, can't enjoy the sim without RSRD.

EDIT:I also don't understand how people think there is not enough single merchant traffic, I can't help but run into them.I ignore most unless its a big ship and deleted many in 44 and 43 since it was illogical that important ships would be on the open ocean alone.

09-29-13, 12:16 PM	#6
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,104 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Okay, I am going to try to clear this up once and for all... There are plenty of convoys in RSRD, but it does depend on what you year and your patrol area. I just finished a patrol in June-August 1944 in East China Sea, I ran into 6 convoys.Once was a tanker convoy I added, but 5 were RSRD convoys. The problem the stock game and other mods that use random generated traffic gives as a first impression to a player is that there were always convoys in the logical places at logical times and this is simply not true.The Japanese did not take ASW seriously for a large part of the war so convoys were rare in 42, and early to mid 43.There was no dedicated, centralized convoy coordination for most part, it was left up to regional commanders. After serious losses were suffered they started building more escort vessels, what the British/Americans called corvettes and Destroyer Escort types.Convoys were much more common by Fall of 1943. IJN suffered heavy losses in late 43 and especially in January/February 1944.This lead to an actual more centralized effort in convoy organization being pursued, case in point was the Take Ichi Convoy( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Ichi_convoy)attacked by USS Jack and Gurnard in April/May 1944. RSRD reflects history by using a source that documented a large percentage of convoys and put them into the mod. Yes, some are missing that were there and were not documented for whatever reason.Prime example is in 1944, the Singapore/Japan seas lanes running tanker convoys east of Hainan Island then via Luzon Straits/Bashi channel, west of Ryuku Islands to various ports in Japan is empty in 1944 except for singles.This is wrong as this was a major shipping lane with plenty of tanker traffic.I added some convoys there myself which will be included in my add on for RSRD. Now, if you are playing 1942, don't except to see a lot of convoys because fact is, there were not many convoys.There were a few but a lot of ships running alone or in pairs unescorted.1943, 1944 and first part of 45 there are a ton of convoys, especially in key areas.They die off in 45 as did in real life as shipping losses were many.Their routes also change, in late 44 and into 45, really dont find convoys on open ocean like in real life, they hug the coast for most part for protection.This requires some changes in tactics. Running TMO along with RSRD? This is pretty much suicide if attack submerged unless find some deeper spots and sees are rough, then you have somewhat of a chance.Night surface attack is your best bet but then that is not always an option without some fixes for realism.Suggest download my radar fix, brings IJN radar down to more realistic performance. Look up the maps but they are not always a help.Just open up the traffic with the Mission Editor, if you just look to see where the routes area in that time period, it is not cheating.Same thing as looking at a map. I speak to this as someone who when I first began using RSRD, made the same comments and had same feelings concerning convoys.I remember the frustration of going on patrol and thinking there are no convoys.Another thing to consider is that RSRD seeks to simulate history by not always assigning player to a hot area but the underlying plan in many cases is to have player in the right area so that may encountered a big prize. Example, I have been assigned to cold areas, encountered nothing, but at end of 30 days in area, here comes a carrier or heavy cruiser, with escorts.Worth the wait ? Yes. Sometimes I encounter them but was not in position to attack and they got away, it happened in RL and RSRD simulates this. After getting a feel for this I checked the traffic files, ran the simulation with the ME and was like "Ok, I get it now".Fact is, not every sub got a hot area on each patrol and not every sub was able to rack up tonnage on each patrol. I simply can not run this sim without RSRD these days, I find other traffic "gamey" and unrealistic.Even though TMO's campaign is pretty good.I like that I am attacking a convoy that spawns once and will not respawn.This gives convoys variety in number of escorts, ships etc.This also in many cases, prevents unrealistic patrols.There are times when may run into a convoy early on, take out 3 or 4 ships, then that is the last one you see, so you spend the next 20-30 days in area just looking.This was how it was in many cases but you still bagged 4 ships, a successful patrol by any standards. That is another thing, player is not limited in this sim as skippers were in rea life by things such as staying in your assigned area.To prevent overlap, confusion and possible friendly fire, subs were usually forbidden from moving into another area without permission, some exceptions could be made though. Player chooses to play realistically, they will stay in area but if so chooses, can just go way out.I stay within my area, maybe go out of it a little to get a last attack in on a convoy before it's gone.Due to game limitations, there is a honor system sometimes, such as with refits.Well if you want you can pass withing 10 miles of a port, click refit, get a new load of fuel and torpedoes. Others, if choose, can actually pull into port, up to a pier and wait a few hours(with TC of course) then depart. I will conclude this "rant" but bottom line, there are plenty of convoys in RSRD, takes time and patience.Study maps, open up the traffic layer for the desired year and see the routes.Dont want to cheat,? dont check the dates they depart or run the simulation, just look at the routes.Don't give up, I did not and now, can't enjoy the sim without RSRD. EDIT:I also don't understand how people think there is not enough single merchant traffic, I can't help but run into them.I ignore most unless its a big ship and deleted many in 44 and 43 since it was illogical that important ships would be on the open ocean alone.