back with a hangover, so excuse my slow typing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter
Now you show up with this verbose - but well mannered - comment on... well, sorry but I don't get your point.
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i don't even know if I have a point
. My point with many conspiracy people is that they happen to be exactly those close-minded, self-centered folks which they paint anyone who disagrees with them. My point is that I miss the critical thinking they claim to have.
My point with you is only, assuming you are German, that you don't vote for those arses from the PDV, haha, really, they are even worse than the FDP which is pretty much the bottom of the German party barrel. You seem to have the heart in the right place and care for the crap going on in this world, so I hate to see this wasted by one-sided thinking.
One of my fav CT's is from Southpark, where they make the US government being behind the truther movement.
If you consider this seriously, you see that every hour you watch videos on YT, looking for the smoking gun in the rublle of the WTC, is one our less to inform yourself about the real life stuff which is going on right under our collective noses, with the constant erosion of civil rights, the cutting of our social systems, the deep bowing to crony capitalism, injustice in general - one hour less to protest against it. I have 2 friends who also fall for some of this stuff, so, yes, I also have a personal agenda if you will so, as I am a little shocked how all this mind-garbage could become so influential over the past decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter
I read what all the others of your party have to say about CTs, about their totally critic support for the official declarations and about the 9/11 truthers stupidity.
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sorry, the link to "my" party is in my signature, they are the only party I follow, as they are
the party and hence always right.
I couldn't even tell you about the political affilations of the other posters in this thread who don't believe in CTs - I consider myself a lefty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter
And I read some common truths, some universal accepted statements on green cars or some buzz words like Ockham's Razor or Dawkins, CCC and Nostradamus.  |
My unintentional buzzwording came from speaking about the tools we have to check out certain claims. If you're not a direct eyewitness, you rely on other resources. Using professionals who focus on certain topics, are more helpfull to me than those universal geniuses on conspiracy sites. Looks like everyone's an expert on international law, the finance system, hostory, demolition, aviation, biology, chemistry, etc on there.
The Nostradamus example was used to show how claims are seen as true in hindsight. You can test it by picking a random paper from last week and read your horoscope: I am sure you'll find stuff that you experienced during that week being predicted by the astrologist.
However even direct witnesses should also never be the single proof. Ask any LEO who spoke to witnesses about the color a getaway car had and you could come to the conclusion that 99% of all getaway cars belong to the gay community because of the rainbow colors they are painted in.
Interesttingly enough this goes for all kind of witnesses, regardless of their education or training – even for NYC firefighters
Just as experts are a tool for coming to your own conclusions, there is also the good ole rusty razor from Occam. Note that OR doesn't deny unlikely things to happen, but it's a tool to cut away many 'if' and 'when' scenarios.
For example the scenerao you created – I know it's not meant 100% seriously, but it's entertainingly written, so I refer to it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter
How could someone get some plane parts into the construction area of the Pentagon, but doesn't fly an airplane into the building?
Maybe he has some (military) superiority to order new air conditioner installations for the wing. They have to be proved by the US Army to not contain any buging devices, they have to be sealed into wooden crates and they have to be delivered to the Pentagon. Only to be opened by authorized personnel. Crates A through P to be stored next to the outer wall for easy access. The other crates inside the building.
This superior may order some old airplane parts from Nevada (or wherever this huge parking area in the dessert is) for a shooting test at an army base in Maryland. Metal parts for checking the performance of the new yellow tracer bullets...
Park the two trucks overnight in Kansas next to each other, change the hauling papers and/or order two new drivers.
Now blow the Pentagon and collect the airplane parts and let the Army shoot the air condition.
You say there are too many people involved. I say who knew what he did?
We can go on and on and on.
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I think the switching truck scenario by itself would work well for a drug deal. However for a plan to fake an attack on one of America's landmarks, there are too many ifs and buts involved in the whole construction.
For example would the time window to place the content of the crates onto the Pentagon's lawn be extremely short, from the impact, untill the first people reach the scene. If the crates would have been stored inside, you still would have to put out some stuff manually. In both scenarious you would still either hope that any remains of a crate would be blown to unidentifable pieces or have to make them disappear – still in the time window, before any rescue personnel walks through the scene. Also must the shooting of the parts resemble the same damage an airline crash with some hundred km/h into a building causes.
Your last point is true: too many people involved. And I am pretty sure than many members of the US military, who shot at some 767 parts, would have asked questions after the attack on the Pentagon. Same goes for truck drivers, airport graveyard managers, people who fake part numbers on the aircraft remains, basically anyone involved.
How to make people keeping their mouths closed? Either through fear, money, ideology or simply by offing them. The first 3 are extremely unlikely to work with 1000s involved, not on the long run – all three cannot substitute a conscience or morale. The last works, but also involves other people who kill them for you, you gotta keep them secret too, and the circle goes on and on....
I've got a new Pentagon theory: What if the parts of the airplane have been in the missile's payload?
*Twillight Zone music silently fades in*
Another thing is the paper trail any government action involves. From buying parts, to transportation, over hundreds of other preparations, to the very concrete attack plans. We recently got the paper trail confimation how the CIA supported Saddam's chemical warfare against Iran by providing battlefield intelligence, available here:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article..._iran?page=0,3 Only a handfull of people involved here, hell they couldn't even keep a bj in the White House secret, an action which includes exactly 2 persons.
But you see how just one little part of the whole 9/11 operation would raise tons of questions, whens and ifs.
By the way this is what I have often noticed with the 9/11 truthers. They focus on small scale scenarious. Many of them not impossible, but what about the whole picture? I have yet to see one universal theory to include it all – the unversal theory what really happened 12 years ago, according to the truth movement. A scenario which includes launching a missile, remote controlling planes, killing airline passengers and draping their bodies on the scene, faking phone calls, blowing up a skyscraper, yada, yada, yada -and keeping everyone involved quiet over the course of more than a decade.