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Originally Posted by agrims
RR, there is one flaw with what you propose. Germany actually had quite the ground force compared to what WE even could muster. Also, the way they fought war was radically different than what the world had ever seen prior, and one that we adopted quite well. It was the Blitzkreig, and you HAVE to have the airpower aspect before the ground forces even come to the scene, as we all know playing our sub games, airplanes are bastard machines that fight in an unfair place. They have things that naval and ground don't, altitude, speed, and fear factor. Also, their target in the beginning and all along was England and the U.S., as we were the ones that caused them all the pain and suffering after WW1. Russia was the biggest threat to them, and that is why Adolf struck the peace treaty with Stalin at the breakout of the war. England was a tiny island, that depended on the sea for materials. Cut the material's and cut the people down. Russia on the other hand was vast, resource rich, and was ruled by a ruthless man who even Hitler didn't trust, (At least he didn't starve HIS OWN people.... I speak of Hitler..) Also, at the time, the U.S. wasn't much of a threat, we spoke highly against another war, and we had an entire ocean between us.
So, in the end, he would have had to have attacked Russia. He may have won had his troops been better clothed, fed, and supplied for the harsh winter. And after bringing England to their knees, he wouldn't have need for a large fleet, thus the subs were his best choice. Suprise and stealth.
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I agree with Steve there. You didn't point out a flaw at all. Usually when people announce that they will expose a flaw, they preceed to do that. Unfortunately, what you said is so unfocused I can't really tell what you think you are saying and how it could be in conflict with what I said. And you never got around to identifying any flaw. So I'll clarify my position a bit.
Actually, as they and you should know, the US sought to limit the cost to the Germans at the Versailles Conference, lobbying strongly and unsuccessfully against overly punitive reparations. LLoyd George and Clemenceau were not dissuaded and made Wilson out to be a fool, which he was, but not on that issue.
If you have read Mein Kampf, you know that Hitler truthfully told of his disdain, yes for Jews, but also just as viciously toward the Slav slime to his east. THAT was his primary aim in Europe after securing the continent so he could operate freely. It was all those eastern Eurpoeans with too many consonants in their names that were keeping the master race from.........whatever the master race wanted to do they could do it best without Slavs mucking it all up.
Brits were Aryans just like the Germans. They were destined to rule, just as Germany was. They were brothers. The French, on the other hand, didn't take showers and thought they were tough thugs. The low countries had the misfortune of owning real estate needed to crush the French. It was no mistake that Poland was attacked first--it was the gateway to Hitler's highest goal of invading Russia. He attacked east first because that was his most important goal. What school teaches that? It's so easy and obvious but they blind their eyes and hum loudly to avoid the obvious conclusion. It isn't that these history czars can't see--they WON'T see.
So there you go. Plan before the war: Execute von Schlieffen plan and squash the low countries as collateral damage on the way to destruction of France. Ally with Spain. Western Europe secured.
Then leave minimum forces in western Europe for a full-scale invasion of Russia--public enemy #1. Not enough room in Dodge City for two totalitarian governments.
What part of that demands anything more than coastal defense submarines? NONE OF IT!
Now, inconveniently, Germany found itself at war with its natural ally, England, because of England's treaty with Poland. Then Germany, with full ability to utterly destroy the British army at Dunkirk, let them escape. It was the perfect time to declare peace, and the appeal of peace would have been irresistibly strong for the English people, many of whom admired the German state, people and even military.
Submarines, promoted by power-grabbing admirals seeking cash to build their personal glory, had sold Hitler on the submarine. These subs were scantly modified WWI U-Boats with not enough range, not enough firepower to matter, no way to fight in a way that would not bring many, many other nations who otherwise wouldn't be interested, into the war against Germany.
You see, there is a fundamental difference between the situations of island nation Great Britain and island nation Japan. Island nation Japan ships all of its supplies on Japanese bottoms. Sink Japanese supplies and nobody but Japan gives a rat's patootie!
But Britain is very different. So different that using submarines to fight her is completely inappropriate and guarantees the defeat of Germany. It's because, you see, British supplies weren't on British bottoms. No, British supplies came in on American, Canadian, Brazilian, Argentinian.......... bottoms. Can't you see that sinking those supplies is an act of war against those neutral nations? Can't you see that GUARANTEES the defeat of Germany? Can't you see that you cannot strangle England by sinking a few supplies? You make her stronger as you kill your own best commanders and men. And that is exactly what happened.
So a wolfpack of 14 toothless old submarines encounters a convoy of 1000 ships, accompanied by incredibly skilled escorts. Can this result in any significant losses? YES! But only for the submarines. The convoy cannot be significantly hurt by weapons lacking in firepower to get the job done.
Every penny and every man in the submarine navy of Germany was a tragic waste from Germany's standpoint and a great investment by Allied standards. They COULD NOT deliver victory in any event. They GUARANTEED Nazi Germany's utter defeat by bringing in insurmountable adversaries who need not have been concerned with the war.
The flaw was the man, Adolph Hitler. He was crazy. Insanity does not make decisions in its own best interest. When he agreed with Raeder and Donitz to build a submarine fleet he doomed his thousand year reich. In 1939 he was a dead man.
What kind of history program doesn't teach these fundamental facts about World War II? Did they not have you read Mein Kampf? Did you not have to read "A Man Called Intrepid?" Do they not have any historical perspective at all? It's time to question authority and start learning. The only thing you'll learn in college is what other people think and how to learn. One is invaluable and the other is of limited value.