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keysersoze · 05-12-13, 11:50 AM

gap,

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, you asked me to set renown costs for the reworked flak guns. On account of my laziness and being distracted by other things, I started but never finished that project

Volodya's recent posts reminded me to finish compiling the sources. I'm sorry for the long delay, but here are some preliminary cost suggestions with accompanying citations to explain my rationale:

Flak Guns
C/38
December 1942: 1500 [1]
15 January 1943: 1000
15 February 1943: 750
15 April 1943: 500
15 May 1943: 250
15 June 1943: 100 [2]
15 July 1943: 0

C/38 Zwilling (unshielded)
15 July 1943: 1000 [3]
15 August 1943: 750
15 September 1943: 500
15 October 1943: 100 [4]
30 October 1943: 0

C/38 Zwilling (shielded)
30 October 1943: 500 [5]
15 November 1943: 250
30 November 1943: 0

C/38 Flakvierling
1 May 1943: 3000 [6]
15 June 1943: 2000 [7]
15 July 1943: 1000 [8]
15 August 1943: 500 [9]
15 September 1943: 250
15 October 1943: 100 [10]
15 November 1943: 0

37mm SK C/30U
15 October 1943: 2000 [11]

37mm M42
15 October 1943: 3000 [12]
1 December 1943: 2500 [13]
15 December 1943: 2000
1 January 1944: 1750
15 January 1944: 1500
1 February 1944: 1000
20 February 1944: 500 [14]

37mm M42 Zwilling
1 November 1944: 3000 [15]

Notes on Deck Guns
27 April 1943: removal of all deck guns authorized; Polar and Med. boats can apply to keep gun; some large (IX?) boats retained 10.5 cm gun or exchanged it for another 3.7 cm C/30U [16]

Summer 1944: some VIICs have deck gun refitted for operations in Gulf of Finland [17]

Citations
[1] Fitting begins but encounters technical problems until mid January (Rossler, 188; Stern 108)

[2] no boat allowed into action without at least two 2 cm; 72 boats converted to Turm II/III, 57 under construction, accounting for 60% of U-boatwaffe (BdU KTB 16.6.43)

[3] first forty C/38 Zwillings begin to be installed (Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[4] C/38 installation begins on all boats, so that “practically no boats without twin mountings were putting out for operations as from October 1943” (Rossler, 188; Stern 108; BdU KTB, 1.12.1943)

[5] October 1943: BdU ordered fitting of armored shield to all C/38 Zwillings, which “involved an extensive revision of the mount (Stern, 108)

[6] Flakvierling trials begin (BdU KTB, 16.6.1943)
[7] Turm IV reconversions begin, 50 Flakvierlings available under accelerated delivery program (BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[8] 150 additional Flakvierlings delivered (BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[9] no boat allowed on patrol without Turm IV, even if it meant long delays in port; 150 more Flakvierlings delivered (Rossler, 188; Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[10] all boats have Flakvierling installed or are being converted (Stern 108-109)

[11] some Turm IVs converted to 3.7cm C/30U; because of delivery problems with M42, “some U-boats (approximately 20 percent) remained equipped with either the 2cm quadruple or a single 3.7cm quick firing C/30” (Rossler, 193, BdU KTB 20.2.1944)

[12] Four boats have 3.7cm M42 installed; delivery problems encountered (Rossler, 193)

[13] standard installation of M42 begins, with 18 boats equipped by 1 Dec. 1943 (BdU KTB, 1.12.1943; BdU KTB, 20.2.1944)

[14] 80% of boats have M42 installed (BdU KTB, 20.2.1944)

[15] M42 Zwilling introduced on U-870, whose first and only patrol began on 15 Nov. 1944 (Skwiot, 329; uboat.net)

[16] (Rossler, 188; BdU KTB 27.4.1943)

[17] (Rossler, 188)

Additional Notes
I have intentionally not decreased the M42’s cost below 500 renown, to simulate delivery problems and the fact that 20% of the U-boatwaffe was still equipped with the Flakvierling and 3.7cm C/30U in 1944.

I’ve had trouble finding much information for the 3.7 cm C/30U’s availability. Since it was available long before the 3.7 cm M42 (and was installed on Type IXs fairly early), it seems to have been a stopgap measure to cover the dearth of M42s during the Turm IV reconstruction. Do you have any information?

Similarly, I don’t have much about the M42 Zwilling, other than its date of introduction and several references to its being “rare.”

Again, sorry for the long delay in getting this to you.

05-12-13, 11:50 AM	#823
keysersoze Ensign Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 226 Downloads: 346 Uploads: 0	gap, A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, you asked me to set renown costs for the reworked flak guns. On account of my laziness and being distracted by other things, I started but never finished that project Volodya's recent posts reminded me to finish compiling the sources. I'm sorry for the long delay, but here are some preliminary cost suggestions with accompanying citations to explain my rationale: Flak Guns C/38 December 1942: 1500 [1] 15 January 1943: 1000 15 February 1943: 750 15 April 1943: 500 15 May 1943: 250 15 June 1943: 100 [2] 15 July 1943: 0 C/38 Zwilling (unshielded) 15 July 1943: 1000 [3] 15 August 1943: 750 15 September 1943: 500 15 October 1943: 100 [4] 30 October 1943: 0 C/38 Zwilling (shielded) 30 October 1943: 500 [5] 15 November 1943: 250 30 November 1943: 0 C/38 Flakvierling 1 May 1943: 3000 [6] 15 June 1943: 2000 [7] 15 July 1943: 1000 [8] 15 August 1943: 500 [9] 15 September 1943: 250 15 October 1943: 100 [10] 15 November 1943: 0 37mm SK C/30U 15 October 1943: 2000 [11] 37mm M42 15 October 1943: 3000 [12] 1 December 1943: 2500 [13] 15 December 1943: 2000 1 January 1944: 1750 15 January 1944: 1500 1 February 1944: 1000 20 February 1944: 500 [14] 37mm M42 Zwilling 1 November 1944: 3000 [15] Notes on Deck Guns 27 April 1943: removal of all deck guns authorized; Polar and Med. boats can apply to keep gun; some large (IX?) boats retained 10.5 cm gun or exchanged it for another 3.7 cm C/30U [16] Summer 1944: some VIICs have deck gun refitted for operations in Gulf of Finland [17] Citations [1] Fitting begins but encounters technical problems until mid January (Rossler, 188; Stern 108) [2] no boat allowed into action without at least two 2 cm; 72 boats converted to Turm II/III, 57 under construction, accounting for 60% of U-boatwaffe (BdU KTB 16.6.43) [3] first forty C/38 Zwillings begin to be installed (Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943) [4] C/38 installation begins on all boats, so that “practically no boats without twin mountings were putting out for operations as from October 1943” (Rossler, 188; Stern 108; BdU KTB, 1.12.1943) [5] October 1943: BdU ordered fitting of armored shield to all C/38 Zwillings, which “involved an extensive revision of the mount (Stern, 108) [6] Flakvierling trials begin (BdU KTB, 16.6.1943) [7] Turm IV reconversions begin, 50 Flakvierlings available under accelerated delivery program (BdU KTB 1.12.1943) [8] 150 additional Flakvierlings delivered (BdU KTB 1.12.1943) [9] no boat allowed on patrol without Turm IV, even if it meant long delays in port; 150 more Flakvierlings delivered (Rossler, 188; Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943) [10] all boats have Flakvierling installed or are being converted (Stern 108-109) [11] some Turm IVs converted to 3.7cm C/30U; because of delivery problems with M42, “some U-boats (approximately 20 percent) remained equipped with either the 2cm quadruple or a single 3.7cm quick firing C/30” (Rossler, 193, BdU KTB 20.2.1944) [12] Four boats have 3.7cm M42 installed; delivery problems encountered (Rossler, 193) [13] standard installation of M42 begins, with 18 boats equipped by 1 Dec. 1943 (BdU KTB, 1.12.1943; BdU KTB, 20.2.1944) [14] 80% of boats have M42 installed (BdU KTB, 20.2.1944) [15] M42 Zwilling introduced on U-870, whose first and only patrol began on 15 Nov. 1944 (Skwiot, 329; uboat.net) [16] (Rossler, 188; BdU KTB 27.4.1943) [17] (Rossler, 188) Additional Notes I have intentionally not decreased the M42’s cost below 500 renown, to simulate delivery problems and the fact that 20% of the U-boatwaffe was still equipped with the Flakvierling and 3.7cm C/30U in 1944. I’ve had trouble finding much information for the 3.7 cm C/30U’s availability. Since it was available long before the 3.7 cm M42 (and was installed on Type IXs fairly early), it seems to have been a stopgap measure to cover the dearth of M42s during the Turm IV reconstruction. Do you have any information? Similarly, I don’t have much about the M42 Zwilling, other than its date of introduction and several references to its being “rare.” Again, sorry for the long delay in getting this to you.