[u crank]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I'm not saying that I would have it any other way, I'm simply saying that when "non-believers" talk about not wanting special exemptions for religious speech, this is often the kind of thing they're talking about: people who not only want the freedom to express their religious beliefs, but the freedom to be exempt from an open expression of disagreement with those beliefs, or from the fairly predictable consequences of stating something as a universal truth that simply cannot be backed up by anything other than "because I believe it."

This is not what I was talking about. I don't believe that any one should be exempt from criticism if they make their beliefs known. Period.

This is what I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Skybird

So: keep thy religion for thyself. Do not dare to bother others with it, or force it into the public, the education system, the state legislation, and so on. Keep it to thyself. Then it is your belief. If you become loud about it, it becomes propaganda. If you go public about it, it becomes politics. And be not fooled: creationism is about religion, about nothing else.

This seems to me to go beyond mere criticism of someone's beliefs. It appears that he wants to deny people the right to freedom of expression. If it isn't he made no attempt to say so.

Someone (may have been you) mentioned how it would feel for an atheist to not have the freedom to say out loud in public that he is an atheist.

I did say that. It was in response to the above quote.

-but as Skybird already noted most atheists don't make a point of publicly announcing their disbelief on a regular basis, in the average social interaction it typically only happens in response to someone else bringing the subject up for discussion.

Here I would have to disagree with you. Atheist's have websites, blogs, TV shows etc. They have organizations and they hold conventions. And they write books, some which have been best sellers. They are freely expressing their beliefs all the time. And they should be able to. Shouldn't every body have this right? Actually they do. It's the law in your country and mine as well as Skybirds. If he isn't saying that then I would apologize but he would have to clear the air in regards to his demands to keep it "to keep thy religion for thyself. Do not dare to bother others with it,"

In the realm of science it's even trickier, because science has definable standards. "I believe in God" vs. "I don't believe in God" is one thing and everyone may agree to disagree and part friends. But "I believe the Bible and have the science to back it up" is another thing entirely, if they can't back it up according to the standards that apply to scientific investigation they are not exempt from criticism because religious belief is also involved.

I believe there is a Creator being and I would call myself a Christian, but I am not what you would call a fundamentalist. I do not think that religion should be the basis for scientific thought. They are two completely different disiplines. Nor do I believe that the earth was created in six days. Nor do I believe that a human would have much of a chance against a T rex. I love science and try to keep up on the latest advancements. I miss my calling. I think I would look good in a lab coat.