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Penguin · 01-21-13, 07:05 PM

First of all, I don't see RO's question as offending. The way I see it, is that he asked for a European/Asian POV due to the geographic proximity to Germany and Japan rather than lumping them all together.

So here's my personal, limited experience about WW2 history in school:
I attended history classes in West Germany in the 80s until the early 90s, first the "normal" history courses, then I had an focus on history, something the British call A-levels; comparable to the AP program in the US school system.
The timeframe is important to understand for two reasons. First, most parents of us were still born during WW2 and our grandparents participated directly, in a civilian and/or military role. So any old timer you met, was a witness of this time and could share some experiences if they wanted to talk about. It was also not uncommon to share these stories with kids, especiallly when we played war with our plastic soldiers. So by the time we attended our first history lessons, we could say that we already knew much oral history.

The second point is that I attended a learning facility at the time of an important historical debate, the Historikerstreit . I was lucky that I had able teachers who gave us reading material from both positions.

Same as in the US, history was/is taught progressive in schools, so we didn't reach the 1930s untill the late 9th/early10th grade. We also learned some stuff about Weimar and the 3rd Reich in politics and social science, as those are basic fundamentals, important in understanding the foundation of the Federal Republic and its political system.

Before reaching WW2 in history class, we had a focus on WW1 and its aftermatch. Contrary, to Catfish's experience, we learned it more nuanced. So we read Fritz Fischer's position on the question of the German responsibility for WW1, but also others like Mommsen. Btw: Fischer developed his thesis the way historians do: through historic research, not through some reeducation program or allied pressure. However this is a point I can write some stuff about tomorrow, when I'm less tired.

Back to the OP's question: Yes, we learned a lot about WW2 in school and also about the Holocaust. Just check the focus you guys in America put on the foundation of the USA and the Civil War, to compare it with the focus we put on 1914-1945, as it is an important part of the German history. Did we learn the whole truth? Well, we learned what was the contemporary historical state of history. Of course many things were left out if you ask me as a historical interested person (avoiding the word "history buff" to keep Hottentott calm

)
A big part was about internal German politics, to understand how Hitler rose to power, to understand how life in the Reich was for its citizens and to try to understand how the big slaughter began.
We didn't learn this much about the Pacific Theater, also not too much about military operations in general, other than some key battles, like Stalingrad or the Normandy landing. An interesting aspect that was also quite absent is the economic side, for example about the role of the German industry, as well as about international economic relations, e.g. Sweden, Switzerland, the USA, etc.
Another point that I missed, was the whole aftermatch of WW2. 10th grade ended virtually in WW2. In the 11th grade we put an emphasis on different time eras and countries. So I never learned in my history class when WW2 ended.

A little about today's teaching of history in schools:
School politics are a business of the German states, so here is a link to the current school curriculum of my state: http://www.standardsicherung.schulmi...geschichte.pdf (in German only)

On page 31, we see the curriculum for WW2, I'll put up a crappy translation:

topic: National Socialism and World War 2
emphasis:
- the destruction of th Weimar Republic
- the nationalsocialistic government system; individuals and groups between comformity and resistance
- deprivation of rights, prosecution and murder of European jews, gypsies and dissidents (literally "people who think different") between 1933 and 1945
- war of extermination
- flight and resettlement in the European context

In general you can say that it is more common to discuss politics here than in the US, e.g. at dinner, in bars or at parties. So it is also ok to talk with Germans about history. When people are interested in a historic conversation, they speak openly about this time period.

last words: we are the last generation who has the ability to talk to people who lived during WW2 - use your chance folks! In 20 years, we won't have it anymore.

01-21-13, 07:05 PM	#5
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	First of all, I don't see RO's question as offending. The way I see it, is that he asked for a European/Asian POV due to the geographic proximity to Germany and Japan rather than lumping them all together. So here's my personal, limited experience about WW2 history in school: I attended history classes in West Germany in the 80s until the early 90s, first the "normal" history courses, then I had an focus on history, something the British call A-levels; comparable to the AP program in the US school system. The timeframe is important to understand for two reasons. First, most parents of us were still born during WW2 and our grandparents participated directly, in a civilian and/or military role. So any old timer you met, was a witness of this time and could share some experiences if they wanted to talk about. It was also not uncommon to share these stories with kids, especiallly when we played war with our plastic soldiers. So by the time we attended our first history lessons, we could say that we already knew much oral history. The second point is that I attended a learning facility at the time of an important historical debate, the Historikerstreit . I was lucky that I had able teachers who gave us reading material from both positions. Same as in the US, history was/is taught progressive in schools, so we didn't reach the 1930s untill the late 9th/early10th grade. We also learned some stuff about Weimar and the 3rd Reich in politics and social science, as those are basic fundamentals, important in understanding the foundation of the Federal Republic and its political system. Before reaching WW2 in history class, we had a focus on WW1 and its aftermatch. Contrary, to Catfish's experience, we learned it more nuanced. So we read Fritz Fischer's position on the question of the German responsibility for WW1, but also others like Mommsen. Btw: Fischer developed his thesis the way historians do: through historic research, not through some reeducation program or allied pressure. However this is a point I can write some stuff about tomorrow, when I'm less tired. Back to the OP's question: Yes, we learned a lot about WW2 in school and also about the Holocaust. Just check the focus you guys in America put on the foundation of the USA and the Civil War, to compare it with the focus we put on 1914-1945, as it is an important part of the German history. Did we learn the whole truth? Well, we learned what was the contemporary historical state of history. Of course many things were left out if you ask me as a historical interested person (avoiding the word "history buff" to keep Hottentott calm ) A big part was about internal German politics, to understand how Hitler rose to power, to understand how life in the Reich was for its citizens and to try to understand how the big slaughter began. We didn't learn this much about the Pacific Theater, also not too much about military operations in general, other than some key battles, like Stalingrad or the Normandy landing. An interesting aspect that was also quite absent is the economic side, for example about the role of the German industry, as well as about international economic relations, e.g. Sweden, Switzerland, the USA, etc. Another point that I missed, was the whole aftermatch of WW2. 10th grade ended virtually in WW2. In the 11th grade we put an emphasis on different time eras and countries. So I never learned in my history class when WW2 ended. A little about today's teaching of history in schools: School politics are a business of the German states, so here is a link to the current school curriculum of my state: http://www.standardsicherung.schulmi...geschichte.pdf (in German only) On page 31, we see the curriculum for WW2, I'll put up a crappy translation: topic: National Socialism and World War 2 emphasis: - the destruction of th Weimar Republic - the nationalsocialistic government system; individuals and groups between comformity and resistance - deprivation of rights, prosecution and murder of European jews, gypsies and dissidents (literally "people who think different") between 1933 and 1945 - war of extermination - flight and resettlement in the European context In general you can say that it is more common to discuss politics here than in the US, e.g. at dinner, in bars or at parties. So it is also ok to talk with Germans about history. When people are interested in a historic conversation, they speak openly about this time period. last words: we are the last generation who has the ability to talk to people who lived during WW2 - use your chance folks! In 20 years, we won't have it anymore.