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Catfish · 12-30-12, 01:22 PM

^ hmm, the state should be the same as the government, in a democracy.

Back then in Germany in the 19th century (it was not a real democracy, despite having an elected government), 'the state' provided rails, telecommunications, electricity, postal services, water and all other basic services to the inhabitants, and industry. Its maintenance costed and costs money, also renewing and introducing new technologies like e.g. the Autobahn, internet infrastructure and the like much later.

Initially all this was paid for and built by the inhabitants of the country, the taxpayers. Maintenance also has to be paid for, by those who use it - if some use it to more extent, they have to pay more for it, right ?

So if a company uses those services, to sell its products to the inhabitants of this country or state, it should have to pay for its use, not ?

Unless the companies want to build all this country-wide infrastructure itself to use it, but most refrain for obvious reasons. They would also have to maintain all this, and pay for it, which would be more than even 95 percent taxes.

But lets say if companies would build it all themselves to use it, they would have to pay more for the same services, run by their own company or other privatized 'fellow' (competition) companies, who want to make real money with it, not only provide basic services for the good of the country.

Now in Germany almost all those systems and services have been privatized (read: disappropriated from the taxpayers who financed and built it all).

In the end now all pay a lot more for basic services, since all private postal services, private energy producers and private rail companies etc. certainly want to make big money, and also cash it in from their felolow companies.

Unfortunately now the big companies also realize they have to pay much more than before, just like the average citizen and taxpayer.

Companies pay less taxes than ever in Germany, but they now have to pay much more to their fellow privatized basic service companies to use their services.

I still wonder where the real advantages lie, for the good of most ?

Off topic:
The argument to "privatize verything and it will lead to competition and lower prices" is certainly nonsense. It makes no sense to build multiple energy power lines, multiple water resources like dams by several companies, Autobahnen and multiple rail systems - such big infrastructure cannot be built by several companies, it makes no sense and would ruin our good old earth even more - but most of all it is financial nonsense.

So big infrastructure usually belongs to one big company, or a conglomerate of sympathizing ones, the competition is naught, and they have the monopoly they want - to fetch any price they please.

Only that the other companies now have to pay those prices as well.

And if you look at British Rail, you can see the privatized companies do not maintain anything, they just overtook the infrastructure during the privatization, and let it decay to maximise cash.

Until .. decades later, when all has broken down, it is being socialized again and repaired and financed by - guess who ?

12-30-12, 01:22 PM	#14
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ hmm, the state should be the same as the government, in a democracy. Back then in Germany in the 19th century (it was not a real democracy, despite having an elected government), 'the state' provided rails, telecommunications, electricity, postal services, water and all other basic services to the inhabitants, and industry. Its maintenance costed and costs money, also renewing and introducing new technologies like e.g. the Autobahn, internet infrastructure and the like much later. Initially all this was paid for and built by the inhabitants of the country, the taxpayers. Maintenance also has to be paid for, by those who use it - if some use it to more extent, they have to pay more for it, right ? So if a company uses those services, to sell its products to the inhabitants of this country or state, it should have to pay for its use, not ? Unless the companies want to build all this country-wide infrastructure itself to use it, but most refrain for obvious reasons. They would also have to maintain all this, and pay for it, which would be more than even 95 percent taxes. But lets say if companies would build it all themselves to use it, they would have to pay more for the same services, run by their own company or other privatized 'fellow' (competition) companies, who want to make real money with it, not only provide basic services for the good of the country. Now in Germany almost all those systems and services have been privatized (read: disappropriated from the taxpayers who financed and built it all). In the end now all pay a lot more for basic services, since all private postal services, private energy producers and private rail companies etc. certainly want to make big money, and also cash it in from their felolow companies. Unfortunately now the big companies also realize they have to pay much more than before, just like the average citizen and taxpayer. Companies pay less taxes than ever in Germany, but they now have to pay much more to their fellow privatized basic service companies to use their services. I still wonder where the real advantages lie, for the good of most ? Off topic: The argument to "privatize verything and it will lead to competition and lower prices" is certainly nonsense. It makes no sense to build multiple energy power lines, multiple water resources like dams by several companies, Autobahnen and multiple rail systems - such big infrastructure cannot be built by several companies, it makes no sense and would ruin our good old earth even more - but most of all it is financial nonsense. So big infrastructure usually belongs to one big company, or a conglomerate of sympathizing ones, the competition is naught, and they have the monopoly they want - to fetch any price they please. Only that the other companies now have to pay those prices as well. And if you look at British Rail, you can see the privatized companies do not maintain anything, they just overtook the infrastructure during the privatization, and let it decay to maximise cash. Until .. decades later, when all has broken down, it is being socialized again and repaired and financed by - guess who ? Last edited by Catfish; 12-30-12 at 01:33 PM.