SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - StarForce has been checked. No root-kits found

Soulcommander · 01-29-06, 03:48 PM

I wrote Mark after reading this article asking him what company asked him to check out Starforce. For as far as I know I was the first to contact Mark. But my contact had nothing to do with checking for rootkits etc. I wanted him to check on what the driver is actually doing.

And Mark never did answer my specific questions.
He only referred me to the thread on his blog.

After several emails Mark Responded. "I haven't looked into it any further" So I left him alone.

Here are the original emails the first one is edited to protect names and certain people who did not want their indentity revealed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:19 PM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: Starforce....
Importance: High

Hello Mark,
I was wondering if you would possibly be able to help in this matter. When I saw the deal with Sony...Many of us fellow gamers related this ordeal with the same problem we are seeing with Starforce copy protection. I have been posting links to your web site as well as stories from cnet etc about Sony on the Ubi forums as well as Subsim.com forums. Everyone has thanked me for these posts and ask that I personally thank you! So Thank you!

First off I want to tell you that I'm no hacker and I have no Alcohol 120 or daemon tools on my computer nor have I ever used these programs.
I tell you this as many of us gamers are being accused by Starforce of having these tools on our PC. They make up any excuse they can and when they can't seem to find out what's wrong they leave you hanging.

The details I have are lengthy and I don't want to bore you to death. But I would like to share what has been happening with all of this briefly. And I was actually seeking your help too.

I am (edited) that loves computer gaming...and have been working with Ubisoft (edited) My Plextor writer stopped working after installing Silent Hunter III. It contains Starforce. Also, I discovered Starforce installs drivers in the hidden area of device manager. Many of us have read the EULA and can't find a mention of Starforce being installed anywhere. I think this is wrong. Yet Starforce people have posted that the EULA covers them.

I have collected many incidents from Ubisoft game owners. I have admissions from Ubisoft that Starforce has problems. (from their tech support) (edited)

Starforce wrote an article in response to Aaron McKenna's article http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/10/01/th..._game_pirates/ that basically called all of us with problems "beginner level Hackers" I take offense to that as do many others. Here's Starforce's response: http://www.star-force.com/protection...l?c=256&id=658 Very unprofessional!
I did post Aaron's email to Dennis of Starforce on the UBI forum with Aaron's permission. Aaron has been affected with Starforce problems too as well as his associates. I spoke for 2 hours with Aaron on the phone from Ireland. I actually live in Iowa here in the states.

Starforce is based out of Russia...they lock posts on their web site for no reason and delete them shortly there after. They have helped some but most remain with no help whatsoever. The copy protection in some cases like mine made the cdrw drive have a complete drive failure. Plextor after getting my drive said they couldn't figure out why it died. Only had 16 burns on it and was never used to load or play games with.

It seemed a mystery to me what was going on at first and never thought of a game doing this. I don't install programs as freely as some.. So this game was the first install I did for about 5 months. So I knew where to look, although I didn't use my plextor drive until about a month after the game was installed, to burn our 25th wedding anniversary pics. That's when the trouble started. Although I did have events happening in event viewer in XP stating timeout errors on that drive after the install of the game I never thought of the game as the factor in this. As well as strange high spins for long periods of time upon boot up coming from the cdrw drive ! This seems to be a common description from others too. As well as games playing choppy after Starforce is installed. Not just the game with it on it ,but all others. I had that experience with Battlefield 1942 after installing Silent Hunter III. All these things led me to calling Ubisoft and going to the forums, only to discover I wasn't alone.

So if there is any more info you need or anything you can do to assist. I would appreciate it. Ubi techs don't have a clue on the protection they admitted that...that's why its vital I have someone techy that can assist.

Aaron has asked his associates at Toms Hardware lab also..But so far Aarron says...no word from them.

Another forum post one of many you may find interesting although it's long and can't expect you to read it. Aaron's personal email is on the first page half way down.
I'm Soulcommander in the forum.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...2091013073/p/1

Thank you!!!

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Russinovich
To: Larry
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: Starforce....

Hi Larry,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll buy a copy of SilentHunder III and take a look. I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks for the feedback also.

-Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 7:54 PM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: Re: Starforce....

Hi Again Mark,
One of the gentleman that is in our Starforce Investigation group with Ubisoft pointed out this article Starforce put out:

http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=261&id=707

Want to go to Russia? And win $1,000 Of course you have to prove it to them. I think this is a joke myself....But wanted you to see it. I'm going to show Aaron McKenna from Toms Hardware as well.

Any news for me yet?

Thank you kindly,
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Russinovich
To: 'Larry
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: Starforce

Yes, here's my answer:

-------------------------------

Hi Larry,

I did take a look and commented here: http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/fo...3&KW=starforce

-Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:26 AM
To: Mark Russinovich
Subject: Re: Starforce

Hello Mark, thanks for the reply.
So the questions I asked:
Just curious as I have been getting lots of questions directed my way as if you actually disassembled the Starforce drivers, what you thought about the EULA with the game and if you tested with many combinations of hardware involving cdrw or combo drives with burning software installed and tried?
I want to know if you can share with us all what testing you conducted.

So from your response I will assume you have no further comment on what you actually did to come to your conclusion.Please don't feel I am bullying you. People that have been affected, including myself have been posting and emailing exactly how complete your tests were. I have directed them to your blog entry and I guess they were hoping for a little more detail.
If I don't hear from you again, I will deliver your message you sent to me twice now (Your Blog entry).

Thank you for your time,

Larry

From: "Mark Russinovich"
To: "'Larry
Subject: RE: Starforce
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:52:45 -0600

I haven't looked at it any further.

There u have it folks....So again I wrote Mark to ask what game magazine asked him to do more testings. I would like to find out once again if he tested only for rootkit involvement and nothing more.

This article posted proves nothing except that there is no rootkit involvement... It still does not answer our questions on other matters.

I for one remain Starforce free!

01-29-06, 03:48 PM	#7
Soulcommander Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I wrote Mark after reading this article asking him what company asked him to check out Starforce. For as far as I know I was the first to contact Mark. But my contact had nothing to do with checking for rootkits etc. I wanted him to check on what the driver is actually doing. And Mark never did answer my specific questions. He only referred me to the thread on his blog. After several emails Mark Responded. "I haven't looked into it any further" So I left him alone. Here are the original emails the first one is edited to protect names and certain people who did not want their indentity revealed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:19 PM To: Mark Russinovich Subject: Starforce.... Importance: High Hello Mark, I was wondering if you would possibly be able to help in this matter. When I saw the deal with Sony...Many of us fellow gamers related this ordeal with the same problem we are seeing with Starforce copy protection. I have been posting links to your web site as well as stories from cnet etc about Sony on the Ubi forums as well as Subsim.com forums. Everyone has thanked me for these posts and ask that I personally thank you! So Thank you! First off I want to tell you that I'm no hacker and I have no Alcohol 120 or daemon tools on my computer nor have I ever used these programs. I tell you this as many of us gamers are being accused by Starforce of having these tools on our PC. They make up any excuse they can and when they can't seem to find out what's wrong they leave you hanging. The details I have are lengthy and I don't want to bore you to death. But I would like to share what has been happening with all of this briefly. And I was actually seeking your help too. I am (edited) that loves computer gaming...and have been working with Ubisoft (edited) My Plextor writer stopped working after installing Silent Hunter III. It contains Starforce. Also, I discovered Starforce installs drivers in the hidden area of device manager. Many of us have read the EULA and can't find a mention of Starforce being installed anywhere. I think this is wrong. Yet Starforce people have posted that the EULA covers them. I have collected many incidents from Ubisoft game owners. I have admissions from Ubisoft that Starforce has problems. (from their tech support) (edited) Starforce wrote an article in response to Aaron McKenna's article http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/10/01/th..._game_pirates/ that basically called all of us with problems "beginner level Hackers" I take offense to that as do many others. Here's Starforce's response: http://www.star-force.com/protection...l?c=256&id=658 Very unprofessional! I did post Aaron's email to Dennis of Starforce on the UBI forum with Aaron's permission. Aaron has been affected with Starforce problems too as well as his associates. I spoke for 2 hours with Aaron on the phone from Ireland. I actually live in Iowa here in the states. Starforce is based out of Russia...they lock posts on their web site for no reason and delete them shortly there after. They have helped some but most remain with no help whatsoever. The copy protection in some cases like mine made the cdrw drive have a complete drive failure. Plextor after getting my drive said they couldn't figure out why it died. Only had 16 burns on it and was never used to load or play games with. It seemed a mystery to me what was going on at first and never thought of a game doing this. I don't install programs as freely as some.. So this game was the first install I did for about 5 months. So I knew where to look, although I didn't use my plextor drive until about a month after the game was installed, to burn our 25th wedding anniversary pics. That's when the trouble started. Although I did have events happening in event viewer in XP stating timeout errors on that drive after the install of the game I never thought of the game as the factor in this. As well as strange high spins for long periods of time upon boot up coming from the cdrw drive ! This seems to be a common description from others too. As well as games playing choppy after Starforce is installed. Not just the game with it on it ,but all others. I had that experience with Battlefield 1942 after installing Silent Hunter III. All these things led me to calling Ubisoft and going to the forums, only to discover I wasn't alone. So if there is any more info you need or anything you can do to assist. I would appreciate it. Ubi techs don't have a clue on the protection they admitted that...that's why its vital I have someone techy that can assist. Aaron has asked his associates at Toms Hardware lab also..But so far Aarron says...no word from them. Another forum post one of many you may find interesting although it's long and can't expect you to read it. Aaron's personal email is on the first page half way down. I'm Soulcommander in the forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums...2091013073/p/1 Thank you!!! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Russinovich To: Larry Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:10 AM Subject: RE: Starforce.... Hi Larry, Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll buy a copy of SilentHunder III and take a look. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks for the feedback also. -Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 7:54 PM To: Mark Russinovich Subject: Re: Starforce.... Hi Again Mark, One of the gentleman that is in our Starforce Investigation group with Ubisoft pointed out this article Starforce put out: http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=261&id=707 Want to go to Russia? And win $1,000 Of course you have to prove it to them. I think this is a joke myself....But wanted you to see it. I'm going to show Aaron McKenna from Toms Hardware as well. Any news for me yet? Thank you kindly, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Russinovich To: 'Larry Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: RE: Starforce Yes, here's my answer: ------------------------------- Hi Larry, I did take a look and commented here: http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/fo...3&KW=starforce -Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:26 AM To: Mark Russinovich Subject: Re: Starforce Hello Mark, thanks for the reply. So the questions I asked: Just curious as I have been getting lots of questions directed my way as if you actually disassembled the Starforce drivers, what you thought about the EULA with the game and if you tested with many combinations of hardware involving cdrw or combo drives with burning software installed and tried? I want to know if you can share with us all what testing you conducted. So from your response I will assume you have no further comment on what you actually did to come to your conclusion.Please don't feel I am bullying you. People that have been affected, including myself have been posting and emailing exactly how complete your tests were. I have directed them to your blog entry and I guess they were hoping for a little more detail. If I don't hear from you again, I will deliver your message you sent to me twice now (Your Blog entry). Thank you for your time, Larry From: "Mark Russinovich" To: "'Larry Subject: RE: Starforce Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:52:45 -0600 I haven't looked at it any further. There u have it folks....So again I wrote Mark to ask what game magazine asked him to do more testings. I would like to find out once again if he tested only for rootkit involvement and nothing more. This article posted proves nothing except that there is no rootkit involvement... It still does not answer our questions on other matters. I for one remain Starforce free! __________________