SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - The UK and the EU: good fences

Catfish · 11-02-12, 05:37 PM

Leave, then.

Regarding England is putting more in, than receiving. Heard of the Blenheim Palace speech ?

Myth No 1: Britain's trade with the EU is less important than its trade with the outside world.
Facts: In 2011 the UK's bilateral current account deficit with China was 19.7 bn GBP. You ran a deficit with Russia, too.

Your commercial success is in Europe. Roughly half of UK exports go to the EU. The United Kingdom has - until recently - traded more each year with Ireland than it does with Brazil, Russia, India and China put together. The UK's trade growth with the new EU members is even more dynamic. Between 2003 and 2011 British exports to Poland have increased three times.

Myth No. 2: The EU forces Britain to adopt laws on human rights which are contrary in spirit to British tradition.
Facts: These rulings which you object to come from the European Court of Human Rights. The tribunal is not a part of the EU system. It is an institution of the Council of Europe, a noble British creation which pre-dates the EU. Here, as in so many other cases, the Eurosceptics blame the EU for the actions of European or other international institutions which have in practice nothing to do with it.

Myth No. 3: UK is bankrupting itself by funding Europe.
Facts: The much-debated monstrous EU budget is roughly 1 percent of the GDP of all members of the EU. UK public spending is nearly 50% of country's GDP.
Your EU budget annual net contribution is 8-9 billion pounds. Though it depends on the year, on average the UK contribution is similar to France's and less than Germany's. That is still less than 15 pounds per an average UK citizen and 5 times less than this year's interest on your national debt.

Moreover, some of this money comes back home. For example, UK transport and infrastructure companies have profited enormously from EU cohesion fund investments in Central and Eastern Europe. That improved infrastructure then gains UK exporters: higher levels of prosperity in those Member States mean new markets for UK companies.
The UK government itself estimates that every UK household "earns" between £1500 and £3500 every year thanks to the existence of the Single Market. That alone works out at between five and fifteen times of the UK's net budget contribution per household. It's a bargain.

[...]

So think hard: the EU is a market of 500 million people who enjoy the highest average standard of living in the world. According to the IMF and the World Bank, Europe***8217;s GDP is about 2.5 times than that of China and nine times that of India. Do you want to lose your privileged access to that market?

But there is, of course, a more political Eurosceptic argument as well. Some argue that the UK probably will be better off by leaving the European Union, but even if it isn't any losses are worth suffering for the sake of regaining international freedom of manoeuvre. It's better to be Canada than Illinois.

My answer to that is: yes, the UK outside the EU would have more freedom of manoeuvre, in a number of significant respects. But the UK would be less powerful and less free.

Certainly Britain would lose its influence in many international forums. By negotiating as one bloc in world trade talks, the European Union gives all of us, the UK included, a powerful and united voice to use when speaking to China and the USA. If you leave, you lose that. Let me quote from the findings of a report prepared in 2011 for Business, Innovation and Skills Committee in the House of Commons , I quote

"We recognize the fact that the UK's influence on the WTO can only be exercised through its membership of the European Union."

Britain standing alone would suffer not only on multilateral level. Are you sure that you will command the same kind of attention in, say, Kuala Lumpur, Lagos and Bogota? What about Washington? At the moment, your hosts know that you speak on behalf of London and have an influence to shape decisions taken in Brussels on behalf of the whole continent as well. Alone, you won't be so interesting.

Read the rest here:
http://www.londyn.polemb.net/files/p...Speech-ENG.pdf

Regarding Nigel Farage alone i say you should leave, you are not a real member of the EU anyway, you try to sabotage all just for the wrong facts and a boasting self-confidence

. It is not so that others do not notice that. Suisse will be in the EU in less than 10 years. Also you should probably read the speech Churchill held, in 1946.

Greetings,
Catfish

11-02-12, 05:37 PM	#4
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,812 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Leave, then. Regarding England is putting more in, than receiving. Heard of the Blenheim Palace speech ? Myth No 1: Britain's trade with the EU is less important than its trade with the outside world. Facts: In 2011 the UK's bilateral current account deficit with China was 19.7 bn GBP. You ran a deficit with Russia, too. Your commercial success is in Europe. Roughly half of UK exports go to the EU. The United Kingdom has - until recently - traded more each year with Ireland than it does with Brazil, Russia, India and China put together. The UK's trade growth with the new EU members is even more dynamic. Between 2003 and 2011 British exports to Poland have increased three times. Myth No. 2: The EU forces Britain to adopt laws on human rights which are contrary in spirit to British tradition. Facts: These rulings which you object to come from the European Court of Human Rights. The tribunal is not a part of the EU system. It is an institution of the Council of Europe, a noble British creation which pre-dates the EU. Here, as in so many other cases, the Eurosceptics blame the EU for the actions of European or other international institutions which have in practice nothing to do with it. Myth No. 3: UK is bankrupting itself by funding Europe. Facts: The much-debated monstrous EU budget is roughly 1 percent of the GDP of all members of the EU. UK public spending is nearly 50% of country's GDP. Your EU budget annual net contribution is 8-9 billion pounds. Though it depends on the year, on average the UK contribution is similar to France's and less than Germany's. That is still less than 15 pounds per an average UK citizen and 5 times less than this year's interest on your national debt. Moreover, some of this money comes back home. For example, UK transport and infrastructure companies have profited enormously from EU cohesion fund investments in Central and Eastern Europe. That improved infrastructure then gains UK exporters: higher levels of prosperity in those Member States mean new markets for UK companies. The UK government itself estimates that every UK household "earns" between £1500 and £3500 every year thanks to the existence of the Single Market. That alone works out at between five and fifteen times of the UK's net budget contribution per household. It's a bargain. [...] So think hard: the EU is a market of 500 million people who enjoy the highest average standard of living in the world. According to the IMF and the World Bank, Europe*8217;s GDP is about 2.5 times than that of China and nine times that of India. Do you want to lose your privileged access to that market? But there is, of course, a more political Eurosceptic argument as well. Some argue that the UK probably will be better off by leaving the European Union*, but even if it isn't any losses are worth suffering for the sake of regaining international freedom of manoeuvre. It's better to be Canada than Illinois. My answer to that is: yes, the UK outside the EU would have more freedom of manoeuvre, in a number of significant respects. But the UK would be less powerful and less free. Certainly Britain would lose its influence in many international forums. By negotiating as one bloc in world trade talks, the European Union gives all of us, the UK included, a powerful and united voice to use when speaking to China and the USA. If you leave, you lose that. Let me quote from the findings of a report prepared in 2011 for Business, Innovation and Skills Committee in the House of Commons , I quote "We recognize the fact that the UK's influence on the WTO can only be exercised through its membership of the European Union." Britain standing alone would suffer not only on multilateral level. Are you sure that you will command the same kind of attention in, say, Kuala Lumpur, Lagos and Bogota? What about Washington? At the moment, your hosts know that you speak on behalf of London and have an influence to shape decisions taken in Brussels on behalf of the whole continent as well. Alone, you won't be so interesting. Read the rest here: http://www.londyn.polemb.net/files/p...Speech-ENG.pdf Regarding Nigel Farage alone i say you should leave, you are not a real member of the EU anyway, you try to sabotage all just for the wrong facts and a boasting self-confidence . It is not so that others do not notice that. Suisse will be in the EU in less than 10 years. Also you should probably read the speech Churchill held, in 1946. Greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 11-02-12 at 06:05 PM.*