[Alex]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Alex, unlike Tribesman I'm not going to dismiss you off the bat, because I believe that, like Skybird, you have an educated mind behind you, and certainly I will not deny that there are elements of Zionism in this world, were there not then the word would not have come into creation.

That is very kind of you, Ob'.
But let me tell you I am perfectly happy to have Tribesman and others against me : it would definitely not be a fair game to talk for the sake of talking, without getting people opposing my stance on this point.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Where you and I differ is on the relevence we place upon it. You put the same sort of relevence on Zionism and its evils as some people put upon Islam and its accused evils.
I have absolutely no doubt that there are anti-zionist Jews, and many of them live in America and many of them live in Israel, I have seen pictures of protests by Jewish communities in Washington shortly after Israel boarded that ship headed for Palestinian territory. Good for them, I say.
You are also correct in doubting your sources, a good healthy inquisitive mind, and you are open to the possibility that you may be incorrect, just as I am.

Yet it's definitely not the kind of thing I'm looking for when I'm on the internet, just let me thank you once again for your compliments, Ob'.

Originally Posted by Oberon

I dare say that we will not find all the answers to the questions we ask in our lifetime, and if there is such a thing as a large zionist conspiracy in the western governments, there is very little chance that we will find out about it.

You're absolutely right. That is your opinion on this matter, and you're perfectly entitled to stand up for it. Others got a different one, so let's just keep our eyes and ears open.
This is indeed the only thing we can do.

As for what Zionism is...well, I generally start my searches with wikipedia...it may not be the most accurate of answers, but it generally gives a good idea of what direction to head in.
Wikipedia defines Zionism as:



Other sites describe it as:


Or:

Propaganda from all sides gets to appear online. And yet everyone should remember this fact, you may happen to find related to the site you mentioned. So, since you're a reasonable guy, I'm sure you'll admit that absolutely everything you can find online has to be taken with a pinch of salt, including on that very-site.
Yet you've got to consider once again the fact that it may be no more than propaganda.

Originally Posted by Oberon

However, a common trend between all three definitions is that Zionism is a form of belief that Israel is a land for the Jews.
If you were to exchange Israel for Germany and Jews for Germans, you'd get a similar style of belief to fascist Germany or even that of the English Defence League "England for the English" as I have oft heard...of course they struggle to define just what 'English' is, but I digress.
The theory that one portion of people are superior to another by the location of their birthplace is not a new one, nor are historical claims to land territory. They are excuses used by dozens of nations throughout history, call it lebensraum, call it manifest destiny, or just good old fashioned imperialism. At the end of the day it boils down to one nation asserting itself over others.
That's fair enough, and I agree that more needs to be done to address the Palestinian question, just as many believed before 1948 that more needed to be done to address the Jewish question. Unfortunately in this state of fear that we live in, this is not likely to take place.

Personally ?
I hold every state in the world in respect, including the one we're talking about - yet I never do it too much especially when it comes to my very own nation.
And I hold every country in such a respect myself that I will not allow myself to make any comparisons between the History of countries. I mean, everywhere in the world everyone's point of view is different, and of course everyone's got the right to stand up for his own life and existence. I just stand here with no more than doubts myself. I'm part of those who feel the wish to understand how things get to happen, and why, period.

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, where does that leave us? Well, Alex, again I find myself unable to corrolate your supportive viewpoints of nationalism in the form of the works of Henry Ford and Mauras and your opposing viewpoint of Jewish nationalism in the form of zionism. However, despite this inability to correlate I conclude that you have a strong belief, just as some here have about Iran, Muslims and President Obama, and I respect your right to have that belief, and I also respect your acknowledgement of the potential for your belief to be incorrect, and like myself and Skybird in regards to Muslims I think we will have to agree to disagree for the time being.

Fair enough !

Originally Posted by Oberon

The only thing that I would say, in parting, is that as you do your reading from the library or from the internet, keep...as I am sure you do...an open mind, try to see things from both perspectives, and try not to get drawn into taking sides, because both sides may be right, or both sides may be wrong.

Thank you very much for your advices, Ob'. Yet you don't agree with every person you happen to speak to, you still hold everyone in respect, and that is definitely a display of wisdom from yourself.