[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Codz

The same could be said about any religion. Christian theocracies have also been brutal and unjust. Just look at the Crusades. Any nation ruled by religion will not end well for its people.

Yes, but since a logner time now the West has moved beyond that relgious dictatorship. Islam still is deeply stuck in it. That' why you see more violence of Muslim religious nutheads committed against Jews andChristians, than the other way around. Terror bombs, street attacks, prograoms, legal discrkination, assualt, rape - the number goes into the thousands or even tens of thoussands every year, the size of Jewish and Christian communities in Muslim countries still decreases dramatically, they get sysytemtically discriminated and cleansed out. In the West: mosques pop up everywhere like mushrooms in autumn. The numbers of Isamic crimes of violence reach into the high tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands if you add local milita action and wars like Sudan or Nigeria to it. The record fills books.

Now consider the misery of the uncountable number of case of home-grown violence practiced in the name of Islam.
Globally, I think it is safe to say you here talk about millions.

Consider the status of females in Islam.

Now compare to how many Muslims get assassinated and become victims of progroms in Western coutnries, or get legally discriminated and denied human rights, or get betrayed at courts? Congrats if you fill even one leaf of paper. When somebody eats a pork sandwich in the presence of a Muslim who take soffence from the sight, it probbaly makes it into the headline sof next day'S papers. But if Christains get thrown urine and bood bags at, or get massacred inside a church and get slauhgtered by the hundreds and thousands by "Islamists" - then there is a revealing silence in the media. Mind you, in the EU, criticising Islam and religion now is a crime of discrimination which can bring you to court. We even have started to turn churches into mosques. Propose that the other way around - and you will have immediate hysteric outcry by the ummah world-wide. Show a cartoon, and good ol ummah explodes and threatens terror and violence.

Lovely.

So save me about the sins our ancestors did many centuries ago. Start to care for the same bloody sins Islam still commits on this very present day. It does so without feeling any remorse and without haviung a bad conscience or a feeling of guilt, instead it celebrates that it acts accpordsing to its holy scvriptures. While we feel endlessly sorry and have still a bad conscience for bad things of the distant past.

We now know where our history shows mistakes, and where things went bad. Islam does not, and continues to oush such things.

And just for the record: in the bgeining,m the crusades were a miliztary defencise repsonse in an attempt to take back own land that before was taken ab an aggressive invader who wages wars of attack agaiunst Byzantine (amongst man other places), and later Jerusalem and the masochistically so-called "Holy Land". Mind you, these lands were not Islamic at all, and were coinqwuered by Islamic armies. The early crusades tried to take them back. Not before later, they degenerated into greedy adventures of noble men trying to win welath and land and power for their own well-being, bypassing the original cause that launched the first crusades. - Islam was the original attacker, the agressor. Not the crusaders. It had conquered the North of Africa in maretial cionquest. It took Persia and destroyed it in maretial cionquest. It invaded India in martial conquest.

And later, it initiated trade slaving as well, which again is no North-American invention. North America only made use of the offer, later banned slavery. But certain Islamic countries practice slave trading and slavery until today.

I say again: compare the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, with the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. And then read a bit about Shariah law, so to be able to see what barbarism that Cairo declaration indeed wants to declare as obligatory for all mankind, Muslim and dhimmis, harbis and mustamins alike.