[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

The incorrect information:

The ability to determine a targets course range and speed from bearings alone did not exist in WWII.

I challenge everyone to produce a single instance of an American, British, Dutch, German, Italian or Japanese submarine doing a wartime passive sonar TMA on any target. I can't say absolutely that it didn't happen, but it didn't happen. I sure hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

That you have to be able to know your own position with certainty to do a bearing only plot.

I don't remember seeing that claim. If it's there, you're right.

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

The game tools are inadequate for the technique.

Now cut that out! If passive TMA is using bearings only it's fundamental that taking bearings is something our game does too well and TMA is possible. Who said that? Again, I didn't recall anyone making that argument.

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

That TMA is only possible when you already know the target's course and speed.

Daniel Prates said "I think that TMA is only possible when you can correctly estimate the target's speed." He did not mention course at all! And groomsie (who shares your experience in having performed TMA himself) corrected immediately that Dan's statement is true only with single leg TMA, and that double leg TMA makes estimated speed unnecessary.

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

There's too many totally different answers as far as targets being able to hear your active pings. Someone really needs to do some testing.

That's a possiblilty. My information that no targets respond to active sonar pings comes from Ducimus, who has torn the AI totally apart and jabbed it unmercifully to see how it yowls. If there exists any reliable source of information Duci is it.

However, I don't recall any claims to infallibility on his part. When he posted his findings I just quit pinging warships, as the results of that action would be unrealistic if Ducimus is correct. I wouldn't stake my life on it, but I have a high degree of confidence that he knows what he is talking about and is not in the habit of making unsubstantiated claims.

Let's set up a practice mission and play with it. It's been awhile since the AI was tortured and poked and it's high time we did some of that!

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

I also saw an assumption that merchants don't have sonar, I know of at least 2 that do (nippon and akita maru), there's probably more.

Are you talking active sonar or just passive? How can you tell? Again, I've never had any reaction from any merchant at any time of the war to being pinged. Heck, I pinged the USS Essex repeatedly when.......never mind. Let's just say her reaction was to sink rapidly when I put three or four torpedoes into her. I got no subsequent chances to test Japanese merchant reactions to pings...