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CCIP · 01-27-12, 02:28 PM

This isn't even about Stalin, or the Soviet authority. Soviet authorities let the city down, they did very little in its defense and corruption, misappropriation of resources, and political repression was rife even at the height of the starvation. The only people that deserve credit for holding the line are the brave soldiers and civilians on the front line. This was their victory, not Stalin's, and the prize was not conquest but the life of the whole city, and that's that.

The Finns' role is something that even I continue to be conflicted about. I think there's no question that if they didn't stop on the Svir, the siege would have ended badly. It was a choice, and they certainly did make a bold one. At the same time, they were no angels - and who could blame them? They were attacked rather viciously by Stalin just a year and a half earlier. But I think the Finnish military does need to own up to having some role in maintaining this siege, which by all accounts was a horrible war atrocity, perhaps the biggest ever committed on a single location (we're talking up to 2 million dead, most by starvation). Of course this wasn't their goal and I can hardly see Finnish military leaders wanting to kill every Russian in Leningrad, but those deaths are, in part, a consequence of their choices. As is the fact that the siege was never complete.

Fighting was not nice on the Finnish side of the line, either. Even if they stopped their advance, it was by no means a ceasefire, but a brutal war. My family got a taste of that - my great-grandfather (a Leningrad native, mostly of German heritage, and an engineering officer) fought on the northern side of the blockade. Didn't participate in the Winter War nor anything to do with occupation of Finnish territory. Sniper shot him in the leg out in the open, specifically to attract other 'targets' to his aid. It was many hours before he was rescued, losing his leg as a result. Yet another reason that Finnish snipers are not something to mess with. So, not a nice war on a personal level - but that's the reality of war for you. In the end, I think all sides need to forgive and learn their lessons.

Speaking of which, let's not forget today is also Auschwitz day.

01-27-12, 02:28 PM	#7
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	This isn't even about Stalin, or the Soviet authority. Soviet authorities let the city down, they did very little in its defense and corruption, misappropriation of resources, and political repression was rife even at the height of the starvation. The only people that deserve credit for holding the line are the brave soldiers and civilians on the front line. This was their victory, not Stalin's, and the prize was not conquest but the life of the whole city, and that's that. The Finns' role is something that even I continue to be conflicted about. I think there's no question that if they didn't stop on the Svir, the siege would have ended badly. It was a choice, and they certainly did make a bold one. At the same time, they were no angels - and who could blame them? They were attacked rather viciously by Stalin just a year and a half earlier. But I think the Finnish military does need to own up to having some role in maintaining this siege, which by all accounts was a horrible war atrocity, perhaps the biggest ever committed on a single location (we're talking up to 2 million dead, most by starvation). Of course this wasn't their goal and I can hardly see Finnish military leaders wanting to kill every Russian in Leningrad, but those deaths are, in part, a consequence of their choices. As is the fact that the siege was never complete. Fighting was not nice on the Finnish side of the line, either. Even if they stopped their advance, it was by no means a ceasefire, but a brutal war. My family got a taste of that - my great-grandfather (a Leningrad native, mostly of German heritage, and an engineering officer) fought on the northern side of the blockade. Didn't participate in the Winter War nor anything to do with occupation of Finnish territory. Sniper shot him in the leg out in the open, specifically to attract other 'targets' to his aid. It was many hours before he was rescued, losing his leg as a result. Yet another reason that Finnish snipers are not something to mess with. So, not a nice war on a personal level - but that's the reality of war for you. In the end, I think all sides need to forgive and learn their lessons. Speaking of which, let's not forget today is also Auschwitz day. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)