[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JU_88

You decided to trash my argument on the basis that my generalisation does not apply to you personally, from there you seem to have concluded that it cannot apply to anyone else either.

That's the problem with generalizations - they don't apply to everybody, meaning not that they don't apply to anyone else, but that they don't apply to everyone, and hence are less than valid.

Nope i said:

Ah, so the "12 months" meant a plan, not credit. Sorry for misunderstanding what wasn't specified. I'm a little thick that way, taking things literally and all.

Maybe not YOU, but that is how most people aquire the latest handsets, though contracts or payment plans (12 months+) of course you can buy any handset outright from a retailer or network provider on pay-as-you-go, but this means parting with a lump sum of cash up front - also not free! (we are talking hundreds of $$ for the most desirable hand sets)

True, but people buy what they want, not what they need. You seem to be saying that's a bad thing. Are they really suffering? Is this the great evil of our society?

So you payed $30 for a phone worth about $30 like a reasonably modest person, now do all the Non-Steves out their do that too? As you are about to point out - they do not.

Okay, a lot of people pay a lot of money for a plan or for a phone. I'm saving up for a car and a new computer, which I can't just buy because I screwed up and my credit stinks. Should someone just give the computer I need to properly run SH5? Will that be the great improvement society needs? Am I succumbing to the Lords and Masters by wanting something I can't afford right now?

Yep again, those 'someones' happen to be an awful lot of people.

Yes, especially young people. They want the convenience and are willing to pay the price. Should they be made not to? Should the evil phone providers be forced to give them phones and service for free? For less? What exactly are you driving at?

Steve the problem I'm having with your argument is that; you keep refering to youself as the only given example to prove wrong an argument that concerns millions of other people.

And the problem I'm having with yours is that you tried to make an example of all those people, and I'm part of the proof that your argument isn't everything you want it to be. Worse, you're trying to illustrate a problem but not providing any answers. Exactly what do you want to do to fix these "problems"?