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Originally Posted by Skybird
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On the other hand, the orient never has been good for Europe anyway. Just meaning problems, problems, and then: more problems.
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Wow, that's a very "central european" point of view. The "orient" as you call it is one of the most profound "shapers" of Europe. Let's put Byzantium aside which was the "oriental" part of the christianized Roman Empire and survived for ~1000 years and look at Russia and the territory it controls and its zone of influence in Asia. Is Russia less "european"? Ok. Remember that the Spanish and Portugese expantion to the west was in their attempt to find alternative routes to the "orient". Not enough? How about the British Empire actually becoming an empire when it consolidated its position in the East and controlled all relative shiping lanes. And you must admit that UK was, in essence, the first "modern" western state (in a ... british "queen, tea and crumpets" sorta way
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