[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Castout

I cannot show you God because God showed Himself to whoever He wants.

A good point, but why not show himself to everybody? It would solve a lot of problems. Of course only God can know the answer to that, so it's not a question for which I'm actively looking for an answer, because I know I won't find one.

[qyite]You're assuming that a person can prove you God. Even Moses cannot make God to appear before anyone. If you want the proof of God seek God yourself.[/quote]
I'm not assuming anything.

I have testimonies that I know God but for it to be proof you need to know me otherwise you will just say I'm lying.

Again, I've never once said you were lying. I did say it was funny that you would call someone else's assertion "trash". You essentially said that he was lying. How do you know?

People who took much of my life rely on LIES and if I were to lie just like them I would be the same as them.

For that I am truly sorry, and I would help if I could.

Now I give you a statement that I know what death feels like and it conforms to the bible BUT you wouldn't still consider it the truth as you might say I studied the bible first before coming out with my conclusion UNLESS you knew me beforehand and knew me well.

And you don't know me very well. I don't doubt or question your experiences. I only say that if you want me to believe you some evidence would be nice. If you don't want me to believe you then why tell me about it. I've said many times that I neither believe nor disbelieve, because I don't know.

I have the document that you can read. The testimony itself is just one one page long. It's NOT meant to PROVE my testimony but meant as a testimony that is backed by scripture study. Even when you do not believe the testimony you cannot ignore the scripture pointed. But the question a critical minded person should be asking is without experiencing my testimony or similar to it how does one know the scripture is correct?
That is for God to do not a person.

How does one know the scripture is correct? I don't, which is why I don't place my faith in it. And if a scripture is correct, which one? Many people claim to have the truth, and many of them disagree with each other. Who do I believe? I don't know.

I'm not a liar nor am I crazy.

You may know you're not a liar, but how do you know you're not crazy? I don't know that I'm not crazy, and I think that acknowledging the fact that I might be crazy is the only thing that keeps me sane.

I have witness that can tell you I knew event before they come to pass. BUT you could name anything to that: coincidence, psychic, etc.

Yes, I could. There are many possible answers for those questions. But I won't say that, because I don't know that you're wrong.

Or that I feel what other people feel sometimes. But even that is not controllable and happens when they happen. It is not a power. It gives me understanding that other people are like myself, well most other people. Even that you can call me a psychic instead. SIGH.

I've never seen psychic phenomena either. I don't know that such things exist. You keep thinking I'm calling you a lot of things, and I'm not. You're doing all the thinking, and you're thinking too much. I've never called you any of those things, and I never will. You completely mistake my meaning.

Or that I see NOT with my eyes the invisible beings though RARELY. But how can you prove that when no one seems to be able to realize what I saw and saw rarely and not even with my physical eyes. They'd call that imaginary. I know they are true for good reasons that most people just cannot understand because the experience is shut to them.

Again you're making your own arguments and thinking that is what I think. I don't claim you didn't see those things, I only say I would like to see proof, or see them myself.

I DO NOT expect anyone to believe me. But if they call me a liar they better prove it. I'm perfectly fine with DON'T KNOW.

I can't prove you're lying anymore than you can prove you're telling the truth. The problem I have is that when you say you've seen something it seems to be because you want others to believe you. Since I've never seen these things they are hard to accept. That's not your problem, but it does make it hard to believe.

Skepticism is alright even good but you need CRITICAL skepticism. That means it's not mere sentiment to deem something a lie but an active effort to find whether something is true or otherwise. It's a curiosity and passion to actively find the truth.

A good point. Unfortunately one can look for a lifetime and never find what another says came to him in an instant. You may think I doubt you, but I doubt everything, and that is a curse. I hope you're right, but I live with the fact that I may never know. And if I did see some of the things you say you've seen, the first thing I would do is doubt my own sanity, because the person I trust least is myself.

And you're not being skeptic, You're being insulting and disrespectful. In a word you're being an ass.

How so exactly? The only negative I've given you is to point out that you would deny the same benefit of the doubt to someone else. You called the article "trash". How do you know he's not telling the truth, or at least making the right guess? I compared your claims to his. I don't know whether either one is true or false, but you claim outright that his claim is false. So by your own standard you need to prove that, or else you appear to be all the things you've just called me.

I'm sure large part of it is because you're afraid....afraid that I am right and that fear turns into hate towards me. I am not your problem. The problem is with yourself, you need to come to terms with whatever fear my statements pose to you. It's not me, it's you. I hope you have the courage to be willing to see that.

I'm not afraid of you at all. In fact I'm hoping you're right. I just want to see it. Hate you? I've already said that's not true. I don't know you, I don't fear you, I don't hate you.

Here's an interesting comparison. A couple of years ago I was playing a game with a group of friends, an airwar game played with model airplanes at a local hobby shop. One of them insisted that he would only play a certain period, and told us to call him when we were ready to play in that period. I told him I felt like he was forcing us to do what he wanted. The next thing I knew he was emailing me several times a day telling me what a jerk I was for trying to force him into my mold. I told him it was only my personal feeling, and I could be wrong. It was just the way I felt. His reply was that I was trying to make him into the bad guy, and it was me who needed help not him. I tried to apologize and explained that my feelings were my own and he could be right, and they were only my feelings. His reply to that was to tell me the conversation was over, and he hasn't spoken to me since.

Do you see the pattern here? I've never called you a liar, and I've never said that you didn't see what you say you saw. I did question your honesty in one point, and one point only - that of calling someone else's claim "trash". In all of your ranting and accusations concerning my motives, the one thing you haven't done is address what I actually said. So insisting that it's not you, it's me, is just a little hollow, at least from my point of view.

Do you know why I'm making these statements? Because my enemies have been mocking God and they are very influential with their power and money but shamelessly they use LIES to cover their shame and exaggerate or even lie about their success. I'm writing these so at least some people know. Too many people think their ways are superior and become like them. The fools who follow the fools. I am not writing all these because I feel special. In fact I am hoping that everyone is like me. If I could maybe it is best that everyone had seen God once in their life. I'm certainly not the only person, far from it.

I do feel bad for the situation you live in, and I don't dismiss that at all. As I said, if I can help in any way I would, and I will.

And you Steve I'm done with you. You turn out to be another shallow man. I'm done with small people. Good luck with the rest of your life.

Exactly what have I done to deserve that? You call me names, and I've never done that to you. Do you want an apology? For what? You say it's not you, it's me, but I've tried to have a civil discussion and you've replied with name-calling and accusations, which I've consistently denied. Perhaps you need to look in the mirror instead of blaming me.

But you're done with me, so anything I say will fall on deaf ears, because you're already convinced I hate you and fear you. Your loss, not mine. And I say that because I'd be more than glad to talk to you about anything, and try to reach some common ground. It's easy to call somebody shallow, or small, but I'll always keep the door open to anyone, and not dismiss them easily.