[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

I do think it's still possible to discuss this in a level -headed manner. But as Takeda noted not many minds will be changed.

One last historical factor to throw in the mix. Why did the emperor decide the halt the war? He himself consistently gave three reasons when asked about his decision. One was his loss of faith in the Imperial Army and Ketsu-Go. He apparently finally came to the conclusion that they had been feeding manure to him all these years. A second was his deep fear that that Japan's neat civil order would crack under blockade and bombardment, and possibly destroy the imperial institution from within. He also specifically cited the atomic bomb.

Also, without the atomic bombs, the Soviets would have gone ahead with their plan to invade the northernmost major Japanese island of Hokkaido. On the Asian mainland the Soviets seized about 2.7 million Japanese nationals, only one third military personnel. Of this total some 340,000 to 370,000 perished in Soviet hands. Taking this as a yardstick the human cost of a Soviet occupation of Hokkaido means another 400,000 Japanese noncombatants would have likely have died. Not to mention the possibility of a new flashpoint in a Cold War world with a divided Germany, Korea and Japan.

I have to agree here. The outcome without using the A bomb would have been drastically different and much worse. Let's look at this way, say we did invade along with the Soviets. The death rate would be been much much greater than what the A bomb created. Today, there would have been this question: "Why didn't the USA drop the A bomb instead of invading? The loss of life by the Japanese, Soviets and USA would have been greatly reduced? No matter the scenario the USA was damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

It is a discussion that ruffles feathers on all sides, changes no minds, decides nothing and ultimately goes nowhere.

I agree with this as well. I have not witnessed a mind changed when discussing this part of WW2 history.

Furthermore, I believe if Japan possessed such a weapon as the A bomb it would have been used on US soil. Again, attempts were made with indiscriminate bombing of towns in the US with balloon bombs. Submarines with cannon and aircraft attacked the shores along the west coast.

The argument that the US are mass murderers as a result of the A bomb is flawed beyond belief when those that argue it was wrong completely and utterly forget what the Japanese were up too in countries such as China and Korea. They did not provide a picnic for the locals.

R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.

Wiki..RJ Rummel.

Was the A bomb a tit for tat? Perhaps. Either way my aunt and uncle returned from the PTO in one piece. So, yes, I believe the A bomb was the best means to an end.