Quote:
Originally Posted by CCIP
But like myself and mookie have said, that wasn't the issue. Noone's questioning the likely guilt here or the moral imperative to execute rapists. The issue is that he was denied counsel from his country of citizenship and potentially received a trial that was unfair. He should've been able to have a stay and receive counsel from the Mexican officials, and possibly another trial. Then he should've been executed if guilty after a fair trial where all legal/international/constitutional obligations to due process are met. Simple as that. No need to touch moral issues here at all, this isn't about that.
And there's no nonsensical technicality here. Nothing nonsensical about being able to receive assistance from your consulate if tried abroad. It doesn't factor into guilty/not guilty, but it does factor heavily into due process.. Texas just jumped the gun and set a dangerous precedent, simple as that.
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Exactly. Neal, I'm sorry if I came across a bit blunt but the circumstances of the crime are inded irrelevant to the issue at hand. I agree that the guy was scum and if ever there were someone deserving of the death penalty, it was him. But just because we don't like a person, or if their crime is egregious, doesn't mean that we get to deny them rights.
The issue in my mind is that while the United States has not ratified the Vienna Convention and thus has no legal obligation to it, does that not mean that we don't have a practical obligation to abide by it in the interest of affording our citizens abroad the same rights to a fair trial? I see this as arrogant and short sighted on Texas' part. They've jeopardized the rights of all U.S. citizens abroad. And for what? To rush to execute a guy who most likely would have been found guilty even with consular assistance from Mexico? They could have declared a mistrial, let the guy get a Mexican lawyer and it still would have been an open and shut case. And there would have been no international incident.
Texas needs to realize that it's part of the United States which is in turn a citizen of the world and its actions have wider repercussions.