[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The always-victim-never-guilty-story again.

Never? No. This case? Yes.

German TV news RTL 7th November this year. A German filmcrew made an announced visit

Announced visit? I'm already suspicious. Perfect to set up the situation in advance. Are you sure you didn't mean unannounced?

in a Palestinian school, and interviewed the staff and filmed the location. The reporter only smiled and knowingly nodded his head when he was shown fragments from "gas grenades" and was told by the director that almost every day, at around the same time, an Israeli patrol would show up and start firing smoke grenades into the schoolyard and into the crowds of children (6-10 years). Nonsens, of course, Israel does not do such things. The usual kind of hate-filled Palestinian propaganda. The filming went on. At the end they filmed a wide panorama from a roof or a balcony, the whole school compound. School was over, groups of peaceful boys and girls age 6-10 left the building chatting and laughing and headed for the gate. Then by chance the camera showed an Israeli Jeep or Rover whoch approached slowly from the background - which stopped and then started to lob several rounds right into the crowds of children - which were not attacking, not throwing stones, did not do anything, just heading home. Smoke and tear gas all over the place. Panic broke out, everyone screaming and running around. NOT BEFORE THEN older juveniles ran to that place in help, and started to answer the Israeli friendliness by throwing stones at them. Later the reporter - who was not smiling anymore, but had swollen red eyes and obviously had some kind of trouble with his vision - walked over to that patrol and asked what the hell they were thinking. "no comment", they said, shrugged shoulders and turned away. Later the video was shown the Israeli police chief. He said that the patrol clearly was under attack and had the right to defend itself. Insisting that the video clearly showed there was no attack at all and the patrol moved in completely unharmed and then opened fire on little children who were about hopping and dancing home without even a hint of a provocation, the reporter again was told that it obviously was an attack by the Palestinians. There also were no hostilities reported in the vicinity of that school.

I'd love to see the film. I'd also be interested in seeing the full reports.

While there are goons in the IDF, too, just like most any other army, the response by Israel's chief of police is not his usual in such cases, unless he knew for sure that the incident is just what he said it was.

Again, you may be right but nothing surprises me.

(This would be a good time to mention having a view at Pierre rehov's "THE ROAD TO JENIN").

I do not recall the instance Germany's RTL mentions, and this is alway desired footage by the local leftist TV and press. And these incidents are always reported by the rest of the papers. Interested that it seems to be a total unknown here.

I'd love it to get publicized. Then we could get down to the truth and either toss away some bad apple soldiers or nod our heads again and say those Pallys can't be beat when it comes to being the biggest liars around. Goebels is turning in his grave.

Let’s the director‘s initial statement on regular provocations appear in another light, eh?

Looking forward to the investigation. Don't let it rest, Skybird.

It's by far not the first time that our medias were able to come up with evidence for such Israeli provocations. Sometimes it seems to be about crushing education of Palestinians, sometimes about triggering incidents which then are taken as an excuse to go in in force and acchieve whatver is to be acchieved – the real reason for such actions. The director of that school said that usually they come during lessons and shelling smoke grenades into the classrooms, to make education and lessons impossible that way.

As an Israeli, with friends husband's in active reserves and friend and neighbors' children actively serving, I challenge you to substantiate such rubbish.

Again: we are talking of boys and girls age 6-10 beeing intentionally fired upon with smoke and teargas when laughing and hpping around on a schoolyard and heading home. If I were a Palestinian and see such events happen throughout my youth, it would be my highest pleasure to bomb every Israelis cafe that can reach in return.

It would be my highest pleasure to toss away such soldiers in a dark and cold lockup for a long term without parole. But it has to be true first.
[quote]In that essay I wrote:

The only people that has understood the real and potentially threatening nature of Islam is probably the Israelis (...); having said that I still would like to ask the Israelis why they love to spill oil into already burning fires so often, but that is a complex and very much different theme for discussion that I will not join, I just mentioned this because I don’t want to give the impression I see Israel as right and just in everything it does – it is not like that.

You've bought the left's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Back in 2003, military historian Martin van Crefeld made these remarks:

Dutch-Israeli Military Historian -
'We Are Destroying Ourselves'
From: Ingrid Rimland

1-31-3

The ZGram reader who sent me this interview prefaced it as follows:

"The following interview of the Jewish military historian Martin van Crefeld by the Dutch magazine Elsevier was discovered on Indymedia by one of our readers. The views and opinions revealed here expose Israeli policy with a frankness only possible for a Jew. (...) We recommend that our readers give careful study to this interview.

Indymedia? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

BTW, we have many self-hating nihilistic Jews here. "Frankness from a Jew" is a worthless assessment.

"The prominent Dutch magazine Elsevier has published a conversation with Dutch-Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld. The following has been translated from the Dutch [and then from the German]":

(START)

"We are destroying ourselves."

"In Israel a scenario of doom is taking shape."

Interview with the much reviled Dutch-Israeli Military Historian Martin van Creveld

Professor Martin van Creveld, an internationally known and controversial professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, foresees only extreme developments for the appreciable future. The methods by which Israel is currently combating the Intifada are doomed to failure.

I agree and disagree. Big deal. Read on.

The chances for peace and the founding of a Palestinian state are visibly diminishing.

If only it were true!

A conversation with a pessimist, who, as he himself says, is reviled in his own country.

There's a hint for you. Nudge! Nudge!

Interviewer: Your specialty is war. Is what's going on here war at all?

Creveld: Certainly, although the Palestinians have no government, no army, and no [nationality]. Everything is in chaos. That's why we won't win the war, either. If we could identify and eliminate every terrorist, we'd win this struggle within forty-eight hours.

This is already nonsense. When fighting terrorism, one should not need to check every individual's ID card and documents.

The Palestinian administration has the same difficulties. Even in Arafat decided to comply with our conditions and surrender tomorrow, it's virtually certain that the Intifada would continue.

Only because once Arafat started the party, the music could not stop. But he never tried anyway. So far this genius professor of ours is uite an amatuer.

Interviewer: Are there any similarities on the Israeli side?

Creveld: If the dispute lasts much longer, the Israeli government will lose control of its people. For people will say: "If government can't protect us, what on earth can they do for us? If the government can't guarantee that we'll be alive tomorrow, what good are they? We'll defend ourselves."

This interview was from almost 3 years ago. A prophecy that hasn't come true.

What's your point, Skybird? So far, it's self-defeating.

Interviewer: So Israel is beaten in advance?

Creveld: On that I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing." That certainly applies here. I regard a total Israeli defeat as unavoidable. That will mean the collapse of the Israeli state and society. We'll destroy ourselves.

There is defintely that certain fear but not for the reasons the old professor states.

EU and American aussaging of Arab demands are placing a major security risk on Israel at the moment. What was once talk of 67' lines (Heaven forfend) has turned to 48' or even 47' lines.

Israel has compromised and compromised and keeps redrawing its red lines lower and lower.

Interviewer: Is there any point to the recent Israeli military offensive?

Creveld: This offensive is totally useless; it's only further enraging the Palestinians.

Typical leftist jackass. Look up the statistics yourself. Since the Netanya Park Hotel suicide homicide bombing on Passover 2002 and Israel's following offensives plus the construction of the security fence, the number of Israeli casualties has been dramatically reduced. And I should know as a volunteer for this organization.

Perhaps there will be a short-lived calm, but in the end there will even more suicide attackers.

Yes and no. Fact is less are successful. Fact also is that Israel has allowed the terrorists to rebuild their infrastructures almost everywhere.

Interviewer: Is there any hope?

Creveld: If I were Arafat, I wouldn't stop either. I'd only cease in exchange for a very far-reaching political accord.

Terrorism pays! Remember that when it hits Europe. You'll see.

And it seems as if we have a government [under Sharon-tr.] that won't make Arafat such an offer. If elections were held today, the Left would be thoroughly beaten.

Interviewer: Some maintain that it is Israel's foreign enemies that keep the country unified.

Creveld: That's right. I only wish that there were foreign enemies, but that isn't the case.

Arafat was bankrolled by the EU. His and the other terrorist organizations were funded via Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and numerous others.

We've fought our external enemies for so many years. Each time there was a war, we took a mighty hammer to our foes, and after being defeated a few times, they left us alone. The problem with the Palestinian revolt is that it doesn't come from without, but rather from within. Therefore we can't avail ourselves of the hammer.

This is gibberish and is precisely the cause of Israel's failure. Isreal never did declare an outright war against the Palestinians and an all out assault with a demnd for uncondition surrender.

We lose.

Skybird, I'll stop here because this professor is typical of the moron intellectuals of the world who have been instructing governments and head of state around the world on how to appease their enemies.

Churchill knew better.