@ Broadclarck1:
They moved around from one toilet to the other, speaking Arab among them. It later turned out that they were checking which toilet was clean enough for their ritual...
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Originally Posted by caspofungin
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Originally Posted by Abraham
But it shows total disdain and lack of understanding of Dutch culture to confront others with religious rituals especially under the current circumstances. Some passengers were really scared. If you want to integrate and behave like a 'proper'Dutchman, you keep your personal religion where it belongs, in your personal domain and/or your local house of worship
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but they stepped into the toilet, right? how is that confrontational? weren't they performing their rituals in private? |
Dear caspofungin, are you pulling my leg? First of all a toilet in a train is not a private place, but a private in public transportation. Rightly or wrongly their behaviour attracked attention and scared several passengers. There have been bombings in means of public transportation recently...
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Originally Posted by caspofungin
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Originally Posted by Abraham
I wouldn't call baptism, praying and singing outdated rituals.
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i wouldn't either -- but washing or ritual cleansing is? |
Yes, certainly. Very hygienic and necessairy in the desert, but most people in Holland have the opportunity to take regular showers or baths nowadays. That outdates the ritual cleaning.
But again, it's not forbidden. But if you want to integrate, do it in your home.
How about the situation on the other side of the hill? If I would be a Minister or a Priest, walking in my traditional religious clothes with a cross or a crucifix around my neck and a Bible under my arm in any orthodox Muslim country, could I call on any understanding if I was preaching, praying or performing religious rituals in the public arena? Posing the question is answering it.
We should realise that the often criticized West gives all religions a level of freedom that is unheard of in other cultures. This is guaranteed by the separation of State and Church, because no religion or religious law can effectively guarantee the freedom of others to practize their religion.
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Originally Posted by caspofungin
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Originally Posted by Abraham
knowing the Dutch attitude towards immigrants over the past decades - which has been leaning backwards to make people feel at home and equalLY treated - I am deeply convinced that the rejection came from those fundamentalists first and foremost and then triggered a predictable response from the average Dutchman.
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i honestly don't know enough about holland and other european countries to make a judgement. my only experience has been in the uk. and i agree that some immigrants, at least in recent years, take the easy route and just melt into their little ethnic enclaves. but some don't, some try to assimilate, and while ssome may do so successfully, others won't, for a variety of reasons. |
I would suggest you sniff up the atmosphere for a long weekend or so. It only takes a 40 minutes flight to Schiphol or a ferry to Hook of Holland. You'll like Amsterdam and I'ld certainly like to share a drink with you...
