Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
If they were all that common, why weren't they mentioned?
There are far more accounts that don't mention it than there are that do.
Without facts? Okay.
-list here-
I think I've done that adequately. Out of 27 examples (and I didn't pick and choose, I went straight down the list, which is easily verifiable), 20 made no mention of depth charges exploding, 3 did, and 4 mentioned that the ship immediatedly exploded, which implies a magazine detonation.
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If you look at your list of 'withouts', not because they dont mention it means that it didn't happen. HMCS Louisburg is a perfect example. U-boat.net doesn't mention anything, but survivors of the sinking specificly mention the depth charges going off.
I would not call those 'whithouts', facts to contredict what was told.
Most are just partial accounts of the sinking and dont go into details.
Most of your withouts, should be in the possible section.
Although the facts I showed you cannot be denied because they are clearly stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
Because he provides no evidence or examples. My point was that anyone can say anything. Without evidence it's just noise. Just because he got a book published doesn't mean his research was thorough, or his unsupported statements should be taken as fact.
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Althought I agree with you that anyone can publish a book... I dont think its in his favor to lie. Also, did you check his sources before implying this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
Are we stooping to insults now? I don't trust anything until it's shown.
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Never! Sorry if took it that way. Maybe because English is my second language, it sounded like an insult to you. I have much respect in life for anyone and I can see that you are an esteemed part of this community and did much for it. (And I also use your ship names list
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
All your research so far consists of one book and two or three references which agree with you. Until you look at every single example and list the good with the bad you've done no research at all.
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What do you know about my researches? I am pretty well versed in the subject being a sonar operator myself while I was in service, we did have history courses on the matter of ASW weapons and yes it was mentionned that they were a cause for many deaths after own ship sunk. I also have my own little library of books here. Mostly on Canadian naval history. I was (and still am) a passionate person for naval history, and that for personnal reasons which I mentionned in my first post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
This isn't politics or religion. There's no need to be rude, smug or superior.
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Again sorry if it sounds that way to you, but not my intention at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
I like a good debate, and believe it or not I don't mind being proven wrong.
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Well, you are 'rephrasing' some of your arguments and yet you put a lot of emphasis on my "normally".
To be honest, althought I dont know you much, I think you don't like being proven wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
The only time I get like this is when someone makes a claim I find questionable, and then I question it.
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Again you are making progress like your quote below. At first it was "Nope" in your initial reply and now its "questionable".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
Joseph Joubert
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I am not trying to be 'victorious', I just dont like people questioning me when they themselves are not versed in the subject. Maybe you need proof for everything (you must not believe in books), but for me being in the business myself, find that it's just common knowledge to me. I could do extensive research on the subject I suppossed but it would be very hard to convice you since you would need every sources from every author's and still I think it would'nt be good enough
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I sincerely find this discussion or "argument" very interesting and I hope you escuse me if you think I am being rude with you.
I am actually a very easy going person and was labeled the joker of the ship while in service.
As you can see my signature below, I really told the Captain to shhhh while I was tracking a submarine and he found that pretty funny. That's just the kind of guy I am.
Note to anyone following this thread: I have no grudge against Sailor Steve. I have most respect for what he does in this community. May this discussion be educationnal to all.