[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And do dumb people really deserve the right to vote in a democracy?

People, even dumb people, have the inalienable right to self-determination. Saying anything contrary to that is to demean their status as human beings, and in turn to demean your own.

Yes, dumb people get to vote, as well as make a lot of other decisions that can affect others. Whole political platforms across multiple nationalities are based on people being dumb to one thing or another. I don't like it any more than you do. But you're not really thinking about that, are you?

Like me, you are dissatisfied with what you perceive as "dumbness" amongst the electorate. Few are not. What separates us is that you think that certain groups are beneath you, whereas I think that we should not allow any group to gain primacy through your rationale. I much prefer free, honest, and more or less mutually beneficial trade when it comes to measuring "dumbness".

Aren't the the established outcomes of such elections -alwaqys the same habits, the same names and faces, the same parties - time after time just an expression, a correlate of our dumbness?

Of course they are. Everyone already knows that, more or less. Everybody who has the time and freedom to do so complains about the representative government structure, no matter where they are from, and often with good reason. What's really dumb is that you don't look at the mechanics behind it, instead preferring to proffer your view as a fiat solution whilst ignoring everything that created the situation in the first place, including the ideal of self-determination.

I say "we" although the article is about America. If you take such a quiz in Germany, you do not get much less discouraging results - especially amongst the young ones. The phenomenon is not limited to just one or two Western nations.

Of that I have no doubt. Where we differ in opinion is that you think some kind of superior, enforced system might be employed to correct the inefficacy of the democratic system, and I would argue that a constitutional system with strict limits upon the power you hope to create is the better solution.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is the argument between power and limitation of power. You think that power granted to the "proper" individuals through some yet-undetermined means will fix the problem. I argue that to do so is to simply invite abuse of power, which is precisely what created this issue in the first place.