[Kissaki]

[quote="Type941"]I'm sick and fed up quite frankly with this voice of reason that says what you say. Oh, not all muslims are the same, etc. Okey dokey, but they chose not to do anything about their radical 'collegues'.[quote]

What do you expect them to do? What can they do? After a bombing caused by Muslim radicals, the Muslims are always the first to denounce it. I have noticed this gets very little media coverage, though, and takes up even less space in people's memories. I've heard people say, "if they don't approve of these suicide bombers, why don't they speak up against it?" Then I point to various news articles demonstrating that they do just that, and the argument becomes, "well, of course they say they're against it," implying that "that's what any guilty person would do". No matter what the law-abiding Muslims do, they can't win, because the media invariably focuses on the Muslims that hate the West. You'll never see a headline about Muslims who never do anything wrong. That wouldn't sell papers, and it's not news. So people are given the false impression that we're infested with terrorists. People can't see the forest for bare trees.

What more than denounce the atrocities can Muslims do, anyway? The ones living in the west have no power of any kind in Muslim countries, and even those living in Muslim countries can do little to weed out terrorist organizations and aggressive nations like Iran. How can the Algerian people stop the Iranian government?

And if they aren't waging jihad - they are quetly supporting it!!!

"Anyone who runs is a VC. Anyone who stands still, is a well-disciplined VC."

Ok, on individual level people are different, unique and nice. But guess what - overall they give an impression of a nasty group of people who are anti christian, anti european, anti white, anti capitalist.. eh, of course, anti-jew.

And whose fault is that? The media. Individually, none of us have enough first-hand experience to form an educated opinion on Muslims as a whole.

I'm sick of this political correctness bullsh*t when all we do is afraid to name the problem - muslim religion - and put the blame on people and countries that follow it - certain arab countries and arabs. It is a cultural clash. It is. Why do the arabs and muslims feel they are so important that they can come here to Europe for jobs that aren't there, dictate their laws, and get offended if they aren't allowed to pray in mosques. Go back to Arabia and do all you like, but if you go to European country - have some damn respect for the laws of that country, its religion, and its people. Afterall, they are that way in arab coutries. My friend worked there for Porsche dealership for a few months, and in general, it was like this "If you do this - you are screwed, If you look at woman - you are screwd, if you do that - you go to jail, and so on and on' (Dubai). So it beggs the question - why does a foreigner has to follow rules when coming to arabia, but they arabs when coming to Europe want to live in their own way anyway.

Certain things are illegal here, certain things are illegal there. And particularly considering the totalitarian regimes of such countries as Iran, are you surprised? And maybe that's why they're here in the first place, to escape oppression?

There is no basis for blaming it squarely on religion. All over the world, religious practice is influenced greatly by culture. And not all things associated with Islam has anything to do with religion, either. The burka, for instance. The Qaran does not tell women to cover up, that's purely a cultural thing. I've asked about the reason, and was given this reply: "We cover up our women because as everybody knows, the man is weak to the pleasures of the flesh. Showing too much is just inviting men to temptation."

And why shouldn't they be allowed to pray in mosques, anyway? Christians can pray in churches. There's supposed to be religious freedom in the West, so it is their right.

Sorry, pack the camels and get the hell out if you can't accept local laws. If someone doesn't take a stand against this 'cultural' clash, there will be an all muslim world, no israel, and my kids will be writing right to left. Racist, anti-semitic, disrespectful to women, and inciting violence - that's Muslim religion in 2005. And I don't care what Koran says in the first part, because apparently, noone's reading it! Why is fascism not ok, but these bastards mullahs in UK are ok? Ship them all out to where they've come from.

You just argued my point, there. "I don't care what the Koran says in the first part, because apparently, noone's reading it!" Then how can you blame it on Islam, if Islam is not being followed? Those negative things you mention are all culturally dependant, and are created by custom - not religion. Culture dictates religion, not the other way around, which is observed in Christian practice as well. Here in Norway, we traditionally place a bowl of porridge in the barn on Xmas eve for Santa (a pre-Christian ritual where we would sacrifice to the family's ancestral spirit). In Japan they crucify Santa. If religion was such a uniform thing, we would see uniform behaviour all over Europe and all over the US as a result, but we don't. It's not Christianity's fault if its teachings are not being followed, so why blame Islam when people are not following Islam?

PS> I lived among arbas and muslims. And I interracted with many. So I'm not JUST using some 'common' stereotype before you brand me as racist. I'm not. I base my view on real life experienes.

That's the problem, you base your views on your experiences. But I've had different experiences than you have, so how can you use yours to generalize? Londoners are Englishmen, but are all Englishmen like Londoners? If one has only been to London, that's the impression one would get, but it's not accurate.

Finally, wihtout ever getting into history, OMG what has the TINY Israel done to pee off so many arab nations that they want it gone!!! Ok, the US is big and got armies all over the world, sponsoring governtment revolutions, overthrowing dictators, interferering pretty much into every countries policies, but for the life of me, why the tiny Israel causes so much hatred! They haven't nuked anyone, haven't killed 1000000million people in death camps.... All the seemingly have done is (arguably) displaced a small tiny nation, and kicked some ass in the 60s. And they are sponsored by US.

There you have it, right there. First of all, naturally Muslim nations are going to side with Palestine. Then they see the mighty US supporting Israel. Not to mention the way modern Israel was founded. I can understand why Muslims would be upset, especially because of the US support.