[Dead Mans Hand]

@Xabba
You're closing arguements of "Hmmm.... whatever" have thus been duely noted. However, I will respond to your final statements such as:

The SS is the SS:
Well inherently, yes it is. However that means the US Army is just the US Army - the same for every other branch of every other countries armed forces. This is clearly inaccurate. Even a branch of a military has it's own branches, for instance in the American army Infantry is it's own branch of the Army, while motorized divisions are another, armor is another, air support another, artillery yet another, and so on. To say "SS was the SS!" is to say every man to the last in the SS was to blame, however only one of three branches served in the camps, the Totenkopf, while the Schutzschtafel served as a police force and homeland guard, and the Waffen SS represented the SS in the field. I am not defending the Totenkopf, but you do not listen. I am defending the Waffen SS who was largely uninvolved in any war crimes. Infact alot of the field crimes were Totenkopf troops, including Malmendy. You call me a revisionist, I'm not revising anything. I am merely stating it from an unemotional and logical basis.

Oh, by the way, a fair amount of crimes by humanitarian standards can be drummed up against any elite unit, including the SAS. Also given your standards of "The SS is the SS" do you blame the entire British and American armies for the occurances in Abughraib?? Something even I'm, who you call so horrible, against? If an individual has information, it should be extracted, but those events transpired with no cause whatsoever? I also have heard a returning soldier bragging about terrorizing an Iraqi civilian at gun point - take that as you will. I do not support terrorizing of innocents, as Kissaki has pointed an invaded country does not choose to be invaded. Their people are innocent until they choose to fight. Am I saying they should not fight? Hell no, any honorable man would fight an invasion. However I am saying that when they decide to fight they actively choose to do so - and are not innocent.

If that is where you and August leave the debate with "Hmm... whatever" far be it from me to stop you. Thank you for the contribution you did make to it and find it unfortunate that you feel I am arguing from a political or idealogical standpoint. I however will not apologize for my views in any way.

I'm short on time, so Kissaki I will respond to your post shortly.