Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomen
Not to be a dick, but exactly what rights do I have, that I don't have anywhere else in the west? I m living in the US since 2004 and still trying to find an area where i am supposed to be more free or have more rights than I did in Germany. If anything else, I felt more secure over there than I do now. I didnt need a Gun to protect my family, and I could leave the house and go the local home improvement store or mall without being mugged.
Is that what freedom and more rights are supposed to be?
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If you were a business owner you'd immediately understand that you have greater rights in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't open a store on Sunday, right - not to mention extremely strict hours of permitted operation otherwise.
What about compulsory civil/military service? Or what about the mandatory distribution of half your assets (is this just liquid?) to your nearest relatives despite your will? What about truck driving laws?
What you're talking about is the classic security v. liberty argument. The culture you come from has decided that they prefer security. Our culture has gone for liberty. Like it or not, that means we are a freer nation than most others, with all the problems incumbent upon that freedom.
It is a tradeoff to be sure. Here, we accept the perhaps .0001% chance of getting murdered at any moment in exchange for exapanded freedoms. Germans, for instance, prefer a .000001% chance (those numbers are for dramatization purposes only) so they have further restrictions. Neither side is right or wrong.
For me the discussion falls into what I believe are universally inalienable rights. Ultimately I believe that all rights are subordinate to that of self-determination. Perhaps one can make the argument that, say, gun ownership is inherent to self-determination but I find that to be academic at best, as simply being able to walk down the street in the reasonable manner of your choosing to the reasonable destination of your choosing as more inherent to freedom.
Ultimately that means that none of us should be slaves to any birthright or the determination of another man, and we are only restricted by the impact our decisions would make upon others. The Muslim world does not agree with me on that premise, hence the the worldwide emmigration of not simply the individuals but the culture of Islam which is outright opposed to self-determination especially in the case of gender.
Gimpy has made some excellent points, although I do not agree necessarily with his conclusion. There is way too much "imported oppression" going on, and its typically originating from the Muslim world. The quote from Roosevelt that August posted was excellent, and I agree with it in whole. This goes back to the discussion that Skybird and I have been engaged in for months now, that essentially freedom makes no sense when it is used to destroy itself.
Hence my idea about self-determination being the unalienable human right.