[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

If we grant that a station will perform the scenario, then there would be a significant viewership making it worthwhile. And after a few years, you'll be used to the fact a major TV station is running 4-hours of radical Islam a day, which opens the path for them to be running it six hours a day, then 8, and so on.

The use of spreading propaganda is to influence the other, and to turn him around. And if it is done in the underhanded and lying waylike islam sells itself in the West, then it is a highly effective way that enables them to infiltrate education, legislation, policy forming, and finally claiming the authority to define public opinion (prerogative of interpretation)- which you can see in the fact that today criticism of Islam automatically qualifies as hate speech and racism, and as islamic speakers and officials state: as crimes against mankind. If islam is not given the freedom to seek total dominance and rulership, that is "tyranny" and a perverting of western values, so they claim. Sounds familiar, Steve? You are a formidable Mitläufer of their intentions, opening them their breaches and ways. They turn our own ideals, our values on which we base, our own laws against us - i order to destroy us. And they are successful, as to be seen in the example of the Islamophilia of the EU, the UN, the islamisation of public opinion, and Steve'S thinking that standing up against this is "tyranny".

Having a lot of faith in people, are you? But if you have that much faith, certainly it can be possible to block Islam without necessarily leading to a cascade.

TV quality has constantly detoriated since 20 years and more. It becomes more and more stupid. So, that faith in the reaosnability of the people is highly unjustified, I would say, because the relation between media entertainment and audience is that of mutual feedback. People get kicked into dumbness by showing them stupid programs (or manipulative ones: see news), and stupid programs become more stupid becasue people want it. "Racist crap", as Steve puts it, can be highly successful - that's why it is systemtically spilled out on the streets. The Nazis in Germany are very successful in recuriting new, young people, their numbers are climbing and climbing. Even more since they started to dress themselves into burgeois appearance, hiding their Nazism behind conservatism and seriousness. The modern Nazis doe snot show up in army jackets and black boots, but in ordinary business suits. they copied the infiltration tactics of psycho-sects and abusive slaveorganisations like Scientology. Islam acts in this deceptive way since much longer. In the other thread I linked to an essay on the organsiation behind the Cordoba House - and showed the difference between the sweetsweet words they pour into American ears, and the preaching of conquest and jihad and subjugation of america that they, the very same people, preach on the other side of the planet in support of the GZ mosque. Irritating, not anyone cared for it, nobody mentioned it, nobody saw a motivation of trying to counter it - although I referred to it five times, in links and even quoting the full text, everybody ignored it. So, having faith in the reasonability of people? Sorry, not with me. I have a bit of faith in the reasonability of some people. and these people form the group that is loosing the battle for defining the public opinion-climate. Because they disturb the illusion of this elusive peace that all is okay and nothing must be done and we can keep on hanging around lazy and comfortably. Defending freedom? "What - me...?"

Reason and argument alone have no voice in this insane world anymore. The noise made from the yelling of the others is too loud. Sometimes I think one should let it all go to hell. It's just that there are two young, sweet ladies of age 8 and 5, whose future worries and frightens me. The older one is at school, and I see how the poltical correct appeasement of Isamic demands already is being pumnped into her brain. Of course she is too young to question it, and when she is older she is so used to it and knows it not any different so that it is unlikely that she will start to ask questions by herself. Seeing it that way sometimes puts me into a murderous angry mood. there are not even that many muslims at her school, so WTF did she - as a non-Muslim - already need to obey rules of Halal food during school party in spring this year...??? So far I only read about such things in Britain. It seems the plague has spread further East.

I'll say that people are creatures of habit, and while there may be significant numbers that groan at first, if it is kept up eventually they'll adapt, thus freeing the path for another advance.

You do have to remember just a hundred fifty years ago, not particularly immoral humans thought having slaves was a-OK.
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As a rule, the slippery slope is a fallacy, mostly because its proponent would tend to skip over or understate counterbalancing forces which will stop the "ball" before it reaches an dangerous position.

However, IMO there is an exception case, and that's when one side continuously feels compelled to lift their counterforce away from the balance. In such a case, the slippery slope has the potential to become fact.

Indeed, and in the case of Islam in the West we do not talk about intention, but proven example, action that is taken and maintained since years and decades. The question is neither "if..." nor "when" but only: "for how long anymore?" answer is this: as long as it takes them to copmplete theirt taks, or as long as it takes us to stand up in strength and make them stop and go away, setting up as much pressure as is needed to stop islam, and push it back to the standards every other culture and religion in our home culture has to accept and obey.

That, IMO the essence of Skybird's position (and if I have indeed determined his position through his Walls of Text approximately correctly, I am sympathetic to it), and that, I'll say is why Skybird's position is ultimately less dangerous than Islam. The average Westerner is indoctrinated from birth to be extremely careful about freedom restriction (as we can see here), and though the potential may be reduced as Skybird's proposals open a passage, there will still probably be a fair counter-force left to stop further advance. The average Westerner is indoctrinated from birth to not feel the same away about Islam (and in fact most other religions for the matter no matter what ugliness may be in their Holy Scripts), so there is only a low reserve counter-force, which leaves us vulnerable to Islam.

Indeed. I again refer to the german constitution that both declares an ammount of freedom that makes germany one of the freest societies in the world - but it also specifies the case when somebody can lose these freedom guarantees - and that is when he sues them to try overwhelming the constitutional order or destroy right these freedoms. If that is what makes germany a tyranny or dictaorship, then that means the necessary end of communicating, because people do not speak the same language then.

So, what to do about it? AFAIK It is the Constitution of Western countries to either "grant" the right to free speech and religion, or "guarantee" it. However, nobody mandates that every speech and every religion must be equally well supported by society. Some views go on TV in front of 200 million citizens while others are on a fringe Internet site or a local pamphlet that only a few would have real access to. And I'm certain it won't do Western countries great harm to make Islam closer to the latter.

Once again I remind of this: that Western constitutions tend to base on the separation of religion and politics, and that this is the basis on which they guarantee or grant the right of free speech and free religion. A constitution that does not also specify that these guarantees are void and invalid for everybody who does not fully submit to this principle and thus tries to push policies under the protection of free religion, thus making his political goals untouchable to opposition and criticism, is highly vulnerable to such an enemy, and cannot defend itself against him: it gets beaten by its own rules. Like Steve does, it opens the enemy the lane to turn right this constitution against itself, eroding it from inside, and destroy the order of the state that bases on it.

And that is what is happening: first in Europe, and now also in America. Islam neither knows nor accepts nor cares for the separation of relgion and poltics. In Islam, politics, socialness (?), privateness and religion all are one and the same. we have no equivalent for this model in Western culture as far as I know, not even the uniformity of totalitarian regimes like fascism.