SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - The "Fall X" - The Conquest of West-Berlin

Skybird · 08-13-10, 08:18 AM

Hard to say, I was a teen back then and as a teen your perception of what goes on around you can be somewhat strange

The real question would have been if the Westgerman Bundeswehr would have had the potential to send two or three of its eleven divisions 300 kilometers through the GDR, against combined NVA and Russian resistance, and knowing that this would inevitably mean WWIII and total destruction of all germany. I think the answer clearly is Nay. By training, doctrine and even design of many platforms and weapons, it was a defensive army anyway - you can even see that in the differences in designs for the Leo-2 and the M1, in the way the put different püriorities on what parts of the tanks need more protection. To go on the attack, after WWII simply has become unthinkable in Germany - even back then, even over Berlin (that'S why German thinking about it's engagement in Afghanistan was so seriously messed up and unrealistic from the very beginning on). Also, the Westgerman government was probably not free in making such a decision, depending on Londown, Paris and Washington to support that decision to laucnh WWIII.

I think none of these four governments would have been eager to trigger a whole world war for sure over Berlin, once it had fallen and the Berlin brigades had given up. The French would have needed to set a new defensive line at their own borders. The Brits would have beehn effetcoey kicked of the continent again. The US would have lost it's major foothold in europe. Germany was wanted as a buffer by everyone - and as the battleground to make sure any possible war would be fought not on British or French territory. Maybe time would have been a factor: the more devastating the takeover would have been and in the less time it had been completed, the more unlikely a Western military reaction on such a scale like an all out world war would have been. I cannot see that NATO ever has had any offensive potentials in continental europe against the WP - the soviet reaction always would have caused costs that would have outclassed any gains when attacking eastward first.

And in german thinking,m terms like "Commies" did not and do not play such a role like in American thinking. It still were less the commies and more the Soviets that were thought aboiut, in terms. And the hope for reunification never was given up, thinking of the Eastgermans as Germans that "we" needed to help. the left opposition was massively infiltrated and controlled by Moscow, we know today, also the peace movement did not do anything without Moscow having it's hands in it. This also helped to prevent a bit a thinlking that tried to see the WP as an allput black, a total evil. Thinking lefty was en vogue for many. the explicitly theatralic rethoric in the Reagan years and the debate around the SS-20s and Pershings and Cruise Missiles did their share to prevent a thinking that was allout and one-sided pro Germany or pro-US, and against the WP. the war for influ8encing public opinion, was waged quite successfully by Moscow, asn what made Reagan popular in the Us, made sure that in Germany he was not only mocked about, but was almost hated, especially by the younger ones. I think for Americans that is not easy to understand.

08-13-10, 08:18 AM	#30
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,788 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hard to say, I was a teen back then and as a teen your perception of what goes on around you can be somewhat strange The real question would have been if the Westgerman Bundeswehr would have had the potential to send two or three of its eleven divisions 300 kilometers through the GDR, against combined NVA and Russian resistance, and knowing that this would inevitably mean WWIII and total destruction of all germany. I think the answer clearly is Nay. By training, doctrine and even design of many platforms and weapons, it was a defensive army anyway - you can even see that in the differences in designs for the Leo-2 and the M1, in the way the put different püriorities on what parts of the tanks need more protection. To go on the attack, after WWII simply has become unthinkable in Germany - even back then, even over Berlin (that'S why German thinking about it's engagement in Afghanistan was so seriously messed up and unrealistic from the very beginning on). Also, the Westgerman government was probably not free in making such a decision, depending on Londown, Paris and Washington to support that decision to laucnh WWIII. I think none of these four governments would have been eager to trigger a whole world war for sure over Berlin, once it had fallen and the Berlin brigades had given up. The French would have needed to set a new defensive line at their own borders. The Brits would have beehn effetcoey kicked of the continent again. The US would have lost it's major foothold in europe. Germany was wanted as a buffer by everyone - and as the battleground to make sure any possible war would be fought not on British or French territory. Maybe time would have been a factor: the more devastating the takeover would have been and in the less time it had been completed, the more unlikely a Western military reaction on such a scale like an all out world war would have been. I cannot see that NATO ever has had any offensive potentials in continental europe against the WP - the soviet reaction always would have caused costs that would have outclassed any gains when attacking eastward first. And in german thinking,m terms like "Commies" did not and do not play such a role like in American thinking. It still were less the commies and more the Soviets that were thought aboiut, in terms. And the hope for reunification never was given up, thinking of the Eastgermans as Germans that "we" needed to help. the left opposition was massively infiltrated and controlled by Moscow, we know today, also the peace movement did not do anything without Moscow having it's hands in it. This also helped to prevent a bit a thinlking that tried to see the WP as an allput black, a total evil. Thinking lefty was en vogue for many. the explicitly theatralic rethoric in the Reagan years and the debate around the SS-20s and Pershings and Cruise Missiles did their share to prevent a thinking that was allout and one-sided pro Germany or pro-US, and against the WP. the war for influ8encing public opinion, was waged quite successfully by Moscow, asn what made Reagan popular in the Us, made sure that in Germany he was not only mocked about, but was almost hated, especially by the younger ones. I think for Americans that is not easy to understand. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-13-10 at 08:34 AM.