Quote:
Originally Posted by Castout
And replace them with intellectual, material arrogance and narcissism where there is just an intellectual and spiritual hole?
|
It's not up to religion to claim something like this. That would mean to make the perpetrator the judge and the jury.
Religion and spirituality are mutually exclusive.
Belief and reason are mutually exclusive.
religion and belief, and knowing and learning are mutually exlcusive.
But reason is a basis for spirituality.
and science and spirituality go together most wonderfully.
Quote:
|
People will find whatever things or people to hate and when there's none they make them and create all kind of excuses to justify themselves. It's the people who are troubled and most likely don't even like themselves very much. From school bullies to despotic head of state . . . . . .and you would just blame religion on all that? A bit unfair isn't it?
|
I knew muhammeddans who turned, under great perosnal risk and sacrifice, tino apopstates, and I contributed a bit to that decision of theirs. I was not unfair to them, but you are unfair to reasonable people when you ignore that ideas and ideologies influence and educate people. The Quran preaches intolerance, it's own superiority, the inferiority of all others, and its demand to be in total control. and if your read the Quran correctly: in understanding of the historic sequence of the Sura's roots (the Quran just sorts them by length, not by time) and in awareness of the abrogation principle, you are left with little or no space for wide-ranging interpretations.
And that is what the world is getting from it. Since centuries, since over a millenia, and whole cultures got destroyed by it and whole people got subjugated by it, loosing the future that otherwise may have been theirs. And that is especially true for the Arabs themselves. they had so much better starting coinditions comoared to Europe, at the timemuhammad came. tjhen came muhammad, and the great stagnation and apathy began. If I were Arab, I would curse Muhammad's name over this cultural crime he has committed to my people.
Yeah, sure, if a greedy, hate-ridden, intolerant, surpemacist ideology causes people to bully other cultures and tolerate violence in the name of Islam, this ideology has nothing to do with it.
Do you even realise what you have said when you said it is like this, that it is not the ideology, but the people? You by that implied that people get not edcuated to be in rage or apathy, but that they are in rage by probably some defective genes, must supect, that they are like this because they are what they are and already got born like this, for "it is the people, not the religion". And that, different to a critical argument and view of Islam that is intellectually founded, is pure racism indeed. I never, nowhere, ever said something liked that all Arabs or Persians are dumb or untypically aggressive by nature and race. I said that their damn Islamic
ideology teaches them how to be dumb and aggressive, and that the long stagnation of their countries has somethign to do with that way of edcuation, or better: indoctrination as well.
And that are two very different ways to view things.