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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Godwin's Law really isn't much more than a humorous internet "law" pertaining to arguments and debates, to which my point was regarding neither.
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yup, but it is amazing how often the "law" is true
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Not really what I was going for as far as the people are concerned, but I know it's going to come to name-calling.
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sorry, but you started the name-calling, by claiming that todays Germans - not the German state or government - became Nazis, which is offensive and insulting.
Talking about sentences: can you elaborate the first part of it? I don't get the meaning, look like something's missing.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Army veteran. But not from the United States army.
Not anymore than it makes me a Fascist.
Was that even a sentence?
Again, was that even a sentence/question?
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cmon, don't be a grammar-Nazi
and have some mercy with a guy who had some beers while supporting his football team. I was making fun of your statement, that anyone who supresses Nazis is a Nazi by himself. Following your logic makes this any army and individuals who fought against the third Reich Nazis, as a fight is the ultimate form of suppression.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
We're not discussing punishments. We're discussing censorship. And there is indeed vagrant censorship in Germany, especially towards the issue of National Socialism and the government under the NSDAP, which is what's so humorous about it all.
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not defending censorship here, but isn't this a little comprehensible given our history?
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Though they do censor what you can and cannot own and create in your house.
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/StGB.htm#86a
(1) Whoever:
. . . .
2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.
(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting.
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to be fair, you should also quote subsection 3 of §86, which also applies to §86a:
(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
This is exactly why I cannot own or play or sell a game in Germany with one swastika in it, make or own or sell a model of the KMS Bismarck (...), etc. in the privacy and comfort of my own home. I remember the fiasco they had about Valkyrie (not the part about Tom Cruise playing Stauffenberg) because of the scene with the dozens of swastika flags flying as the Berlin reserves storm the Army Ministry building.
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"stocks"in §86a applies more to manufacturers/vendors, meaning having an amount of this stuff - it doesn't mean private ownership of one item.
When I made models, the shop blackened out the swastikas from the manual and took out the decals to follow the law. I agree on this being stupid, as this tempers with historic accuracy.
The filming of Valkyre was hardly a fiasco or scandal here, just some tourists were wondering about huge nazi banners flying around, when people realized that a movie was shot, no one was offended. I guess the media overseas made a hype about that.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
And I also know that as far as the web is concerned, they censor videos and images you can view on places like YouTube, websites you can access, etc. in the privacy of your own home because I had a friend on YouTube who lives in Hesse, Germany and was making videos about both World War I and World War II, and he had the government complain to him and make him take down one of his videos that had the Horst Wessel Song played on it. He told me that, asides from this incident, he couldn't listen to the DJ Himmler remixes of speeches given by various German figures (not just Hitler or the Nazis, but also Kaiser Wilhelm II, Field Marshal von Hindenburg, and a total remix of Der Koniggratzer. I guess they were figuring all this stuff out and able to block these videos because of his IP address.
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YouTube does it, to follow the german law. Sony does the same, many vids which contain material from Sony are blocked here on YT. They prohibit certain IPs - in this case all german ones- from accessing certain material.
In the internet age, this is stupid and obsolute and infringes on freedom of information. However DJ Himmler should be banned solely for being musical garbage 
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
If I do inside I still have to be careful who sees it and what I do with it.
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same as US laws about drinking or having sex on your property, if someone can see it = forbidden, just for comparision.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
Yes, not only on the basis of it being an important literary work, but because censorship is something Western nations are supposed to be against.
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calling "Mein Kampf" literature was meant ironic, everyone who read a part of it will agree on this. Second sentence: true
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
I whine about it just because it's stupid censorship. I mean, when I can be fined or imprisoned for having a copy of a video game that shows a swastika in it......
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I didn't say you whine about it, I said pro-nazis whine about it.
As said before: private ownership of these items is not forbidden. I can state that I have video games with swastikas in a public forum like this, nothing will happen.
Oh s..t, who's knocking on my door? Aarrghhhh....
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
If the neo-Nazis in Germany really are that serious of a problem today as you make them out to be, and really do have that much momentum, then the denazifcation laws you're using that prohibits swastikas from appearing in video games and on models and on replicas and whatnot and censor videos containing images of the NSDAP movement, etc. are not working and have no purpose.
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Please show me where I wrote that neo-nazis are the biggest threat to Germany? Dangerous? Certainly, like many other groups who fight against freedom. Shortly before storming the Reichstag? I'm glad this isn't so. There are certain areas where you are likely to meet more of them, but my guess is the percentage of neo-nazis we have here is about the same as in other western countries, with or withour censorship laws.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
I don't know if you're aware of this or not... but it's 2010, not the 1930s or 1940s. Western nations are supposed to be against censorship, Nazism is not a real threat, the war's over, Hitler's dead, and that's that. On that note, if the neo-Nazis really are this big of a threat to your way of life and have a serious chance of gaining control of the government as they did previously (which, for the record, anybody who reads the news knows they aren't and don't have a chance of gaining control), your laws failed to stop them from resurfacing, and you should anticipate Germany to be viewed as the sick man of Europe once again.
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Thanks for reminding me! *checking my watch*
I was claiming that when fascists get together with their comrades, they likely infringe on other people rights who are nearby and are not "Übermensch" enough. Experiences from gatherings, concerts, demonstrations, etc. prove this point.
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Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter
All you do when you try to suppress them is give them more momentum to work with, by making it seem like they have a legitimate reason to be pissed off.
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that is what I wrote about giving the Nazis a reason to whine.
Let's allow them to wear swazi-shirts, makes it easier for target pratice...
To make a long statement short: giving people the chance to voice their opinons = good, using free speech to abolish free speech = bad
and certainly there are many gray areas in this matter