[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

It wasn't intended to be an insult, save the playful jab at yanks, but if I offended you then you have my apologies.

And that's why I like you so much, James - you remind me of myself.

"Let the South go? Let the South go!? Where then shall we get our revenues?"- Abraham Lincoln, as cited in Origin of the Late War, Lunt, 1866

Finally, someone who believes that the South represented money for the North comes up with a real quote! Thank you for that.

"Prejudice of race appears to be stronger in States that have abolished slaves than in states where slavery still exists. WHite caprenters, white bricklayers, and white painters will not work side by side with the blacks in the North, but do it in almost every Southern State."- Alexis de Tocqueville

Another good one! De Tocqueville was a valuable observer.

"The free colored people were looked upon as an inferior caste to whom liberty was a curse, and their lot worse than that of the slaves"- William Lloyd Garrison

A good observation, but they were still owned by other human beings. Anyone who got a chance to be free ususally took it, preferring destitution to slavery.

Either Northerners were racist or they just didn't want the competition.

I completely agree. I've never said the North were the Good Guys and the South were the Bad Guys, despite some people trying to put words in my mouth. All I've ever said was that the Southern States gave Slavery as their prime motive for seceeding.

I'd call it a serious compromise of integrity, given that Lincoln didn't free any slaves he actually had control over.

I'd call it prudence, since he certainly didn't want more States trying to seceed.

I'd also cause it a really poor attempt at starting a slave insurrection in the South, which, it is interesting to note, never happened, despite the absence of so many armed men.

I have to agree there. It was an odd move if pictured in any other light.

The points you mentioned were all valid arguing points, and I have no disagreement with them.

Obviously, I think the Civil War was not inevitable, and that it was manufactured more for Northern economic gain than anything else, as the brutal economic policies of the "reconstruction" era evidence.

I disagree there. Lincoln insisted that the South be welcomed back as brothers with no recriminations. After his murder he was succeeded by Andrew Johnson, a weak president at best. Johnson was of the same mind as Lincoln, especially since he was a Southern Democrat, which was why Lincoln selected his as running mate in the first place. He let himself be pushed by Northern politicians and moneymen into allowing Reconstruction to proceed as it did, and of course the rest is history. I completely agree that Reconstruction was a great evil, I just disagree that Lincoln had anything to do with it.

It is for these reasons, and all the civil war bush that the thread train was derailed into to explain them, that I stand behind my nominees for best, and worst, presidents of the United States.

Great job, as always!