[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I have reread both your posts - and your response.

Then why do you persist in saying that nobody has answered your questions? Because I did.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

For some reason - you don't seem to get what I am trying to point out to you.

I get what you're trying (and failing) to say. You're saying that these changes are not inaccurate, and that you agree with them. That you have no problem with them. Your statements about the Founding Fathers' religions/beliefs and the supposed Christian/religious founding of America make that much obvious. At the same time, you're trying to say that nobody is able (or willing) to answer your questions about what parts of this whole affair we disagree with, even though I (and others here) have already pointed out what we disagree with and why we disagree with it; furthermore, what is accurate, and what it inaccurate.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

So far you have complained

Complained? Hardly. Merely pointed out what's going on.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

all about how these people are "rewriting" history,

Which, if you paid attention to what they were saying about the Founding Fathers, the basis on which the country was created, and the Civil War, you would have noticed already that what they are doing is revising what really happened. And I've already pointed out why. Steve has pointed out why. Ducimus has pointed out why. Tater has pointed out why. Skybird has pointed out why. Antikristuseke has pointed out why. Angus has pointed out why. Snestorm has pointed out why. But as to why this is so hard to see... well you'll have to answer me that. I can see it; why can't you?

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

made claims based off their personal beliefs

Quite. And indeed if you simply check their website to actually research how they believe, you'll see this is exactly what they're trying to do. They're admittedly there "to exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by (1) educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country; (2) providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values; and (3) encouraging Christians to be involved in the civic arena."

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

and how those beliefs are being forcefed to the kids in Texas, etc.

Is there something hard to understand about this? The textbooks teachers are required to use to educate the kids are being changed to reflect this BS (and quite frankly it is nothing less; it's not accurate at all). The curriculum the teachers have to follow mandates that they have to teach the kids about, including but not limited to, the Founding Fathers, the founding of the country, and the Civil War. Can you make the connection on your own now, or do you want me to hold your hand and help you there?

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

What you have failed to do - though you have continually skirted the issue -

Lol "skirted". I've done no such thing. Nobody here has. Nobody but you, that is, as far as getting answers goes. You sure were quick to shut up about the fact that the United States was not founded on Christian/religious principles and that there does in fact exist a principle of Separation of Church and State after we all jumped onto you about making such erroneous claims about it, though... but anyway...

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

is go to the ACTUAL changes in the curriculum - and point out where there is an error or cause for concern.

Let me reiterate: the textbooks teachers are required to use to educate the kids are being changed to reflect this BS (and quite frankly it is nothing less; it's not accurate at all). The curriculum the teachers have to follow mandates that they have to teach the kids about, including but not limited to, the Founding Fathers, the founding of the country, and the Civil War. If what the textbooks are teaching are changed, the "how" of the curriculum also changes. The material that is being taught as part of the curriculum is changing, and it's not accurate at all; ergo the curriculum is changed along with it to reflect such inaccurate material... can you make the connection on your own now, or do you want me to hold your hand and help you there?

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

So far all you have done is quote news articles,

What articles would that be? I haven't actually quoted any, so you wrong you say I have. Actually, the sources I've cited are a standard Texas high school history text book by Prentice Hall, a few legal websites about Supreme Court cases, the WallBuilders website to show how insane those people are, some websites on US history and how it does not correlate well with theology, and a Christian Ethics report showing how even they know what these people are trying to promote is BS.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

personal beliefs of people involved,

And demonstrated how it is a valid logical connection to make. And indeed on their part self-admitted from their own website's "About Us" section. Not to say it's a wide-range movement from more than a few people, but the beliefs those few hold and the power they have in this case certainly demonstrated perfectly legitimately how its influencing their decisions. Purely related to logic, evidence, and psychology.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

You have

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

refused to actually look at the changes and point out where you have issues with those changes.

Actually I haven't. I've told you why already. But since you're going to continue this charade, I guess I'm going to have to hold your hand and walk you there like a little child. The United States was intended, as clarified by Madision, Jefferson, Paine, and indeed Washington in their writings and recorded statements to one another, among others (the former four being the most notable), to have religious and state affairs kept separate so as to avoid the possibility of liberty being curbed for the sake of possible theocratic elements entering into the system; as Wikipedia explains, the theological leanings of some 20 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence have been established- and the majority were either self-admitted Deists or self-admitted to have been strongly influenced by Deism; only 9 have been positively identified as Orthodox Christians (source: http://www.theology.edu/ushistor.htm), and the Civil War was not an armed rebellion (implying that it was merely just a small-scale disruption against the government to make a point) but an act of treason in which a completely new government was established that split the original Union in two (the same Union the Founding Fathers they're speaking about creating this country on the principles, according to them, of Christianity) which started the whole war that lasted for four years by storming Fort Sumter after bombarding it mercilessly resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers within that time period and a lasting impression on people today that still creates resentment and controversy when the issue is brought up. They want to teach that the founders were mostly Christians who created the country based upon Christian/religious principles and that the Civil War was not an act of treason on the part of the Confederacy and that it was merely an armed rebellion against the United States government, to "protect states rights" (the main issue of which that was in dispute during the election of 1860 being slavery and arguments for and against it; the Southern Dixiecrats were afraid it would be abolished by Lincoln and would thereby cripple their economy; there is a reason you know why the country became rich so quickly in its brief history up to that point).

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

At least - if you have reviewed the actual changes - you have done your absolute best to not answer the simple question -

Kind of like how you've done your absolute best to continue this game pretending I haven't answered where my concern lies and where the changes are, when I have and when others have.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Where do you find in the changes themselves - cause for concern?

Again, the textbooks teachers are required to use to educate the kids are being changed to reflect this BS (and quite frankly it is nothing less; it's not accurate at all). The curriculum the teachers have to follow mandates that they have to teach the kids about, including but not limited to, the Founding Fathers, the founding of the country, and the Civil War. If what the textbooks are teaching are changed, the "how" of the curriculum also changes. The material that is being taught as part of the curriculum is changing, and it's not accurate at all; ergo the curriculum is changed along with it to reflect such inaccurate material... this is the third time I've posted this in this post alone... I hope, I honestly do, that you can make the connection on your own now...

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

And by the way - some of this is NOT history - it is Social Studies -

Though the textbook changes are reflecting upon public school textbooks about history.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

so the issues of "democracy" vs "republic" can be dealt with.

Not really sure what you mean by this since we have already dealt with it... but whatever.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Sorry - we are NOT a democracy at a federal level - otherwise 51% could tell the other 49% how to live.

I never claimed were were a democracy at a federal level lol... nobody but you has even stated anything remotely along those lines... all I pointed out was that the United States today is a Constitutional Democratic Republic. And listed off the reasons why.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

This is why we elect "representatives" and why the executive is not chosen by purely popular vote.

The Constitution establishes the country as two things: a Republic (the people elect their Congressional members and their leader) and a Democracy (the people are free to voice their opinions and may be directly involved in the affairs of government via the voting/campaigning processes; it's true when Lincoln said "for the people, of the people, by the people"). So is it wrong to teach the United States was historically founded as a democracy? No, because originally it was, and the beliefs in democracy are maintained to this very day by not only the law but the people. The popular vote still decides the electoral vote; there's a reason why we base the number of representatives off the population of a state, you know, and still allow the citizens of the state to vote for both their representatives and their leaders to decide the electoral college outcome.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

If we were a democracy, stuff would just work on popular vote.

You fail to understand much about this. Nobody is claiming the United States is a democracy lol. Though it is obvious to anybody who understands about how the country works that there exist elements of it within the system, just as there exist elements of Republicanism and Constitutionalism. This isn't hard. It really isn't.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

So you can try and lecture and point to different posts you have made, and continue to link to all kinds of websites that tell you what to think - but if your going to debate the issue of changes being bad - look at the changes themselves and find where you have a beef - instead of taking others word for it. So far, you have been unwilling to do so.

Now I KNOW you're just being hard headed. We've already decimated your arguments here, but you just don't want to admit it. Like the issue that there DOES exist a barrier between church and state in our country- when you claimed the opposite was true. Sorry, but I'm not the one who's linking to websites telling me what to think. Actually, nobody here is. Oddly enough, neither are you. I'm doing what any sensible person does in a debate: CITING MY SOURCES. Furthermore, I have been more than willing to highlight what areas I have problems with and what areas are factually incorrect, and explain why it's important that the education system at least be correct in what it's teaching an entire generation of people in a state, nevermind how that applies to the entire country and all its individual states therein. It is YOU who have been unwilling to acknowledge that I have done so, instead deciding to play games with us and pretend like I'm not doing what you're asking when I have. Others have too. I'm not going to play games though; sorry.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

We can't have a discussion on specifics - when you refuse to get specific.

We're not discussing "specifics" lol. You're tossing this out there like it actually means something in this debate, when it doesn't. It sounds really philosophical and good, but it doesn't have any relevance in this. I've pointed out the factual inaccuracies with the changes they've made to the textbooks and shown why and how it will fallback on the curriculum, nevermind how it will affect the students who have to learn it.

Furthermore, I have demonstrated why these people are by definition historical revisionists, and that I am not alone on this conclusion; that their own Christian peers agree with me as evidenced by the Christian Ethics report (i.e. my source... it's not telling me what to think lol... it's my source... you cite them in a debate, you know). Finally, I have shown the dangers they pose to education because of the power they hold in their respective school board districts and because of their self-admitted revisionist beliefs, evidenced by their website (which I also cited to show the similar psychology that exists amongst them, in addition to their core beliefs in spreading this kind of "education" en masse").