Geez - first you guys say that the DoI is not the founding document of our country - and now you admit it is - but that it isn't the basis of our government.
Ok - I can agree with that - but I never argued that the DoI was the basis of our government. Your trying to twist the arguement into something else entirely.
This isn't about seperation of church and state right now - the point I am making is whethere the country was FOUNDED "under God" - and because the document that states we are now the US of A has God in it repeatedly - including putting our decision to the "Supreme Judge" - the nation was founded "under God".
As for the DoI not having the force of law - if your correct in that assumption, then the Constitution is incorrect when it refers to the US of A being independant for 12 years... After all - what was that statement based off of? For that matter, if it had no legal standing -then England could not have surrendered and recognized the iindependance of the US because the constitution - which your trying to claim "founded" the US - had not been written yet.
So when Cornwallis surrendered - and the Treaty of Paris was signes - the Constitution was not yet written. According to the "logic" given here - England could not surrender because the "founding" constitution wasn't written - and thus the US didn't exist...
Want to discuss force of law? Ok - do a search on the Articles of Confederation - the FIRST version of the Constitution - that not only worked off the basis of our independance (as claimed in the DoI) but also formed the basis for the colonial united government. It was this that structured Congress, and it was this Congress that ratified the Treaty of Paris - so are you going to say that the Articles of Confederation also did not have any force of law? Given that they were the basis of government that England surrendered to - one would have to say they did hold force of law.... Bad news - the Articles of Confederation also contains the following (emphasis added):
Quote:
|
And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union.
|
OK - so what is it about document after to DoI - used for 12 years of the US existence as our form of government - that your going to use to claim IT isn't part of our founding?
The 2 documents - DoI and the Articles of Confederation - combined - create, and then structure the government of - the new nation called the United States of America, respectively. In each of those 2 documents, reference to A God is clearly made. This is the establishment and governance beginnings of our nation today. You can wail and gnash your teeth, but its historical fact. In fact, the US Government does in fact hold the Articles of Confederation as the "first" constitution, and represents them as such. One more little historical tidbit for you - the Treaty of Paris - another legally binding document - states:
Quote:
|
in the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity,
|
and was ratified by the second Continental Congress - meaning they accepted the treaty as ordained by the "Trinity" - a rather "God"ish reference if ever their was one.... Considering this treaty also is used to demonstrate the formal acceptance by England of the existence of the US.
Its funny how those with an anti-god need want to make out like the spiritual was not a part of the founding of this country. So much so that apparently they want to say that the US didn't exist until the current Constitution wsa adopted.....
Good luck with that - historical facts are not on your side.