[quote="August"] Depends on your viewpoint I guess. The Sunnis might not have it as good as they did under Saddam, but what about the Kurds? Are they still being gassed and shot in wholesale lots? Are Shiites still being given starved, tortured and executed in wholesale lots? [\quote]
Violance and terror is spreading both towards North and South. the silence in Basra and British sector seem to be over. Since months Kurdish cities has been attacked, not as often as in the centre of the country, but to say Kurdish territory is pacified is false. Britsh troops oin the south are on higher state of alerts than before. Some months ago there was a discussion if we already have a civil war in Iraq, or if it is close to that. No matter what - a war zone it is - years after Bushs premature victory parade on that carrier. Today violance and death toll in Iraq is higher than it ever were under Saddam, war with Iran excluded. In fact I fail to see the diffrences between between back then and now. Look at the detoriating supply situation with water. Food. Electricity. Living conditionas for many, many people definetly are not better than before - but the opposite.
[quote="August"]The main pre-war assumption was that Saddam was a threat to us. Given his history and his oil money i'd say that assumption was and is an accurate one.[\quote]
Wrong. The assumptions that had been voiced where worded much more precisely, and I'm sure you know that. "Clear and immediate danger". Wrong. " "Possession of B-C-wepaons" Wrong. "Close to A-wepaons". Wrong. "niger deal". Wrong. Mobile wepaoin laboratories. Wrong. "Mases of WMD stored." Wrong. "Missiles reaching london in 30 minutes". Wrong. "Direct links to Al Quaeda". Wrong.
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Originally Posted by August
The jury is still out on that, but I must say it's disturbing to see how many of our so called allies are hoping it won't.
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The usual attempt to discredit anyone who is against you because he is not with you by insisting on his bad intentions and bad wishings for the worse. It needs a blind man to see a psoitve developement in Iraq for the next years to come. I do not wish for failure, I see failure. I do hope that this way of unilaterlly acting is preveted from becoming a precedence case, therefor I wish the best for the Ireaquis now - but hope that america will gain zero benefit from what it has done, strategically, economically, else-wise. If it would have rewards that come up for the costs in money and lifes it will be tempted to do it again. And this I do not want and do not support. Only a painful conclusion on Iraq will prevent America to prematurely attack another country it does not like the next time. Unfortunately the major part of the pain is not suffered by america, but the Iraqi people.
Ties between Iran and Iraq are rapidly strenghtening. Iraq today is the world's center of terrosit's activity and training. There are more men willing to commit terroristic acts than before 2003, for a multitude of different reasons. religious ultra-orthodoxy is very popular in Iraq now. Western ideals are not. A conservative Mullahcracy-like government having to deal with a state of constant civil war-like violance for the next years is - by far - the most probable outcome. Greed, hate and wishes for revenge between the three major ethnic groups is heating up constantly. The level of violance is not declining, it is not constant - it is growing since two years. Right now there is country-wide torturing taking place - in the name of the government. A network of torture centres had been described since the beginning of these year. Barbarism is the only way to counter barbarism, it is said. Saddam may have gone. In the hidden the old basic rules have come back. I wonder why Saddam has been kicked out?
Is this what private John Smith and Sergeant Jim Sixpack had been told they should risk their lifes for?
Playing the time card "let'S see how it turns out" often is just an attempt to avoid beeing blamed for something, hoping that the short memory of people will forget it before one could be held responsible for what one has done. But reasonable assumptions and projections based on observations in the present are something that everyone of us is buidling his everyday-life upon, always.
Plenty of voices have told your country in advance that it will come to the results we now see. The warnings of attacking Iraq had been numerous, and liud, and clear. The bad news today is no news at all -it is a consequence that had been forseen by many. So don't complain, and do not shoot the messenger. Start shooting those that brought you into this.