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nodlew · 01-22-10, 01:48 AM

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I would suggest that there is no evidence to suggest that American submariners held any overall character advantages in bravery, competance, skill or initiative over German submariners in WW2.

Perhaps not. But what about his national leadership? Do you think the Nazi Party was a place where a man rose according to his true competence, or was that heavily influenced by his standing in the Nazi Party--a vile organization sure to be at odds with German military leaders (or anyone else) of competence, integrity, and understanding?

What about the industry building his submarine? Was the average German factory worker as motivated and committed to the war effort when his motivation was provided by Goebbels' Nazi propaganda as was an American factory worker whose motivation was Pearl Harbor and the salvation of the free world? How motivated were the slave laborers in Poland and France? No question about the commitment of the Japanese work force, of course, but industry in Japan was infantile compared to the United States. How much innovation was provided by Japanese industry throughout the couse of the war? Compared to the US, Jap innovation didn't exist. The US began the war essentially with WWI technology, and we ended it with the Atom Bomb.
The difference between the two--Japan was a Medieval society attempting to make use of the technology of modern warfare. The US was a Modern Society for which technological innovation and industrial production were the core of our national being.
American industrial and technological ascendance in WWII was the consequence of what kind of society we were--one which rewarded competence without regard for social status, one which valued good ideas whatever their source, and one which dealt in realities more commonly than in ideologies and mythologies (myth of Jap superiority/divinity/Samurai myth--myth of Aryan racial superiority--myth of Democratic decadence/weakness).
Where did a lot of our pool of Genius come from? From Europe, from everywhere, fleeing the Nazis and the Japs to our shores to work for us to destroy their oppressors.
I'm just saying that Good Societies (humane, democratic, liberal) are ultimately stronger than Evil Societies, because at their core they are more rational. Being more rational, they appeal to and win the support of more people, and they tend to make better decisions at all levels.

The U-Boat crews were brave, sharp, competent, and well-equipped. But they were doomed for the same reason that the German foot solder with his trusty Kar 98 was doomed, because they were an instrument of an evil Political Entity which had incurred the wrath of the entire free world plus the Russians.

01-22-10, 01:48 AM	#11
nodlew Engineer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 202 Downloads: 572 Uploads: 0	Code: I would suggest that there is no evidence to suggest that American submariners held any overall character advantages in bravery, competance, skill or initiative over German submariners in WW2. Perhaps not. But what about his national leadership? Do you think the Nazi Party was a place where a man rose according to his true competence, or was that heavily influenced by his standing in the Nazi Party--a vile organization sure to be at odds with German military leaders (or anyone else) of competence, integrity, and understanding? What about the industry building his submarine? Was the average German factory worker as motivated and committed to the war effort when his motivation was provided by Goebbels' Nazi propaganda as was an American factory worker whose motivation was Pearl Harbor and the salvation of the free world? How motivated were the slave laborers in Poland and France? No question about the commitment of the Japanese work force, of course, but industry in Japan was infantile compared to the United States. How much innovation was provided by Japanese industry throughout the couse of the war? Compared to the US, Jap innovation didn't exist. The US began the war essentially with WWI technology, and we ended it with the Atom Bomb. The difference between the two--Japan was a Medieval society attempting to make use of the technology of modern warfare. The US was a Modern Society for which technological innovation and industrial production were the core of our national being. American industrial and technological ascendance in WWII was the consequence of what kind of society we were--one which rewarded competence without regard for social status, one which valued good ideas whatever their source, and one which dealt in realities more commonly than in ideologies and mythologies (myth of Jap superiority/divinity/Samurai myth--myth of Aryan racial superiority--myth of Democratic decadence/weakness). Where did a lot of our pool of Genius come from? From Europe, from everywhere, fleeing the Nazis and the Japs to our shores to work for us to destroy their oppressors. I'm just saying that Good Societies (humane, democratic, liberal) are ultimately stronger than Evil Societies, because at their core they are more rational. Being more rational, they appeal to and win the support of more people, and they tend to make better decisions at all levels. The U-Boat crews were brave, sharp, competent, and well-equipped. But they were doomed for the same reason that the German foot solder with his trusty Kar 98 was doomed, because they were an instrument of an evil Political Entity which had incurred the wrath of the entire free world plus the Russians.