[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Roosevelt was not surprised by the fact that japan started war, because I follow those historians saying that provoking that attack by his stangling oil policy was his only way to bring america into the war, something the congress and the wide public strongly opposed untilm Pearl Harbour.

I would say Roosevelt was most definitely surprised that the attack fell where it did, because American intelligence was convinced that Japan would attack in the southwestern Pacific, which was where the oil and steel they needed were to be found. The Japanese also didn't want an actual war, and there is some evidence that the Pearl Harbor attack was meant as a warning to America to stay out of Japanese business. Yamamoto knew he couldn't beat the United States in a protracted war, and though he planned the attack he did so under protest.

Roosevelt most likely was not surpsied by the Japanese attacking, but probably by the sheer scale of the initial attack. and it always is two different things to just talk about and plan for war, and then being confronted by real war in reality.

The US may have talked, but we never really planned for that war, and were very much taken by surprise.

The american policy left the Japanese only two choices, to either withdraw as a strategic major player from the Pacific and leave it to the US, or to hope defeating america in a war. cinsidering their imperial attitude oif that time and the mindset of their traditional code, it was to be expected that they would strike.

But, as I said, not directly against American soil. We expected an attack, but not that one.

Declaration of wars - when you decided to start killing hundreds of thousands and destroy whole cities, i think these civilised acts of elaborated manners loose in relevance. leave them for times of peace and the dinnerhalls and the party at the embassy. In war, the dead are still as dead as before - with or without such a declaration.

It seems you don't understand the Western approach to war. In pretty much every Western war in history, war was declared months beore the first battles took place. Armies were organized and moved into place, and much maneuvering took place before the armies actually met.

Be hesitent to launch war, but when you do, let nothing, really nothing come between you and the ultimate destruction of your enemy. and that is what the Japanese followed. When they decided for war, they planned, prepared, hid as best as they could, and deceived the americans as best as they could, and then struck with all force like a lightning out of the blue sky. They acted with maximum determination and without hesitation form the moment on they decided for war. No time for romantising the bloody business that lied ahead! If it would have gone as the embassy planned, Washington would have gotten the war declaration just minutes ahead of the attck - an you want to tell me that it would have made or would have meant a difference...? You would complain about that they did not give oyu the warning time oyu needed to ready your forces in a better way. In other words: you expect the Japanese to act stupid, and then complain about them not complying with your intention. that is absurd!

As I said before, Roosevelt's speech was part propaganda. The purpose of any war speech is to convince the people of the necessity to fight, and that usually requires whipping up at least a little hatred.

I have another famous story, that is attributed to a heroic figure in Japan, Musashi.... That'S how it is done, Steve. All that rules of honour and politeness and the parade and paying respect - once the war, the fight is decided, all that does not change a thing, it does not mean anything, it only is BIG TIME BULLSH!T. When you have decided for the fight - be a raging bull with mean eyes: strike, shatter, kill. Simply that.

Thanks for the lecture. I'm surprised you don't believe in some God, given the sermon you just preached.

You fight, or you don't. Let there be no in-between. And if God himself steps in your way hindering you to kill your enemy - kill God first, and then kill your enemy.

Another pretty speech, which leads me to the question: Have you ever fought in a war? Have you ever killed anyone? If not, then I have to lump you with the so-called Chickenhawks, who talk big about war but don't really know what they're talking about. The politicians who've never seen the elephant, but are more than willing to tell others how it's done.

Your opinions on Japan's intentions, and what they would have done if they had known the American reaction in advance, are certainly valid, and I agree. But Japan was led by a ruling class who were certain they were invincible, undefeatable, and the rightful rulers of the Earth. They were terribly mistaken about all three, and about what would happen. Even if they could have seen the future and the exact outcome they still wouldn't have believed it. That's what no one anywhere in the West understood about Japan, and what the Japanese didn't understand about the West.