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Originally Posted by Type941

I disagree on that. I firmly believe that the US Navy would no way in heck allow the Russians near its vessels. Don't forget, the US can easily call in on support of their NATO allies (and it would do that no doubt) - something Russia can't and won't do for political reasons and military reasons.

I still think that if an US Sub is sunk and has crew on board that will die in a few hours, and the only asset able to lend any kind of help nearby happens to be russian because there's no time for own or allied assets to reach the place in time to conduct a rescue mission, USA would indeed call for Russian help.

The military leadership won't like it a thing. Probably the government itself won't like it either. But if word reaches the press that there are one hundred american sailors dead aboard that submarine, and that had the US government called for help they would have had a chance to survive (as small as that chance may be), I am sure that the outcry between the american people would spell said government's immediate doom, or ,at the very least, would mean for sure a non-reelected president.

In modern world, it's rarely about what the 'we, the people' want or think is just.

I agree but I still think there are certain limits to that. There's a difference between seeing your nation's soldiers die in a foreign war (even if it is as pollemic one as Irak's) because wars always take a toll on soldier's lifes, and seeing your nation's soldiers dead because the leadership decided that they would rather spend 100 of it's soldiers lifes before calling for help from a no-friend nation.

The first causes unhappiness between certain sectors of the electoral base and certainly is not popular. The second would set the entire nation against their president for such a decision.


As I said, I'm not american, but I've been long in american forums and read a lot from them and in their own words. I may be wrong, but I think that I'm right on this particular matter. Maybe some american guy can answer us .

You imply that the americans are caring and decent, while the russian would not care less about their people dying - and you say there's no more cold war thinking around?

no, no way I'm saying that.

I imply that American democracy may be better or worse, but is deeply marked in each american citizen. They have known no other political system ,and they really know to get their voice heard if the need arises. An "american kursk" incident handled by the US leadership in a "Russian way" would've caused such a scandal and civil outcry in USA that I'm pretty sure that the president would've had to resign.


On the other side the Russians have always lived in a totalitarian system. Czarist first, soviet then. Democracy is new for them and they really don't realize how much power the people has in a democracy. They simply don't have a tradition of having their voices heard...in fact until 20 years ago or so doing it meant prison, so they usually simply don't raise it even when today they nominally can do it.
Another fact is that Ex-soviet people are used to ruthless coming from the state. Individuals have never mattered nothing to the state. It was true for the Czar, it was true for the Soviets...they're used to it and now that the situation is MUCH better (as bad as it is, it's much better...had the Kursk thing happened within the Soviet Union, probably the involved families would have had no information on how their loved ones died, much less the chance to bury their bodies) they don't react as harshly as the US people would do in similar circunstances.
Also, democracy is new in russia, and noone knows up to which point is not a real democracy but another thing in disguise.



I'm not implying anything about russian people's decency. The people as a mass usually is VERY Decent, be it Iraqi, Russian, American, Japanese or Ethiopian...the corrupt and dirty ones usually are those in power.
But when those on powers have to answer directly to the people, however, they're forced to take decissions they won't otherwise. In russia the government has to answer to their people, but their people is used to much worse things so they really don't cause much worry when things like Kursk happen.


In short, what I mean is that US leadership is much more influenced by their people than the Russian one. So the latter doesn't ask for help and survived the kursk incident. The former won't have survived such a thing, not at least if it was made public (and it would).

That's what I meant.