[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

You do know that keeping information of this type secure in a public court of record is almost impossible. And information of this type may need to be provided to prove guilt. Releasing information of this type may also be detrimental to long established and costly methods of intelligence gathering, and may also present a danger to lives of people being used as sources of information. Don't you find any of that troubling Platapus?

First of all, it is possible to secure sensitive information in civilian courts. It happens much more often than you may read about. There are judicial
ways of sanitizing sensitive information and they work pretty well. We have had many trials where sensitive information was not leaked. The courts have recognized that sources of information can be evaluated in camera and the sanitized evidence admitted in court. It is cumbersome but viable.

However, the second point you raised is important and well worth discussing. What do we do when all the "evidence" we have on these people is inadmissible either due to security or judicial concerns?

This conflict is not new nor easy to mitigate. It illustrates the conflict in the relationship between Intelligence and Operations. Intelligence is designed to collect information, Operations is designed to take action. Frequently these are in conflict with each other. If I could come up with a solution to this conflict, I sure would not be working for my company earning the small bucks!

Would trying them in a military court or a public court really make a difference to these Islamic murderers?

Well first of all, not all of them have confessed and depending on the jurisdiction , it may still necessary for the prosecution to make their case. In most capital cases, it is necessary for the prosecution to make their case despite any confession. Second, you are absolutely right. It would make no difference to the defendants. However, there are more players than just the defendants.

It is important to the citizens of the United States to prosecute these people in an open court (security concerns recognized) as it demonstrates that we are a country of laws and that our respect for our is so important that we will ensure that all defendants have the benefit of a fair and open trial even though it may be a detriment to our nation.

That is what makes America strong. We do the right thing even though it is hard, even if it gives an advantage to our adversaries. This is where the true character of people comes out. Are we truly committed to our culture of freedom and equality or are we only committed when it is is convenient?

Are we morally above our adversaries or do we sink to their level? This is not a trivial question. Depending on our decision, we may win in the short term, but in the long term lose much more.

It is also important to recognize that Muslims around the world will be watching these trials. Despite a shaky start, the United States has verbally claimed that we are not at war against Islam, but against individual people who pervert Islam. How we treat these individuals will have an effect on how Muslims perceive the United State's intentions. This is a chance to demonstrate, via actions not just words, that we are a nation of laws and not a nation of vengeance.

Lastly, we should not be concerned that these extremists will use the courts as a sounding board. We should encourage it. Because then the United States can bring in, from other countries, highly respected Islamic scholars who can then, in public, refute what the extremists are saying.

Extremists, of any kind, do not survive intelligent logical arguments of their dogma. This is a powerful weapon against extremists. Bring their dogma out into the sunshine. Don't suppress it, call attention to it. Force the extremists to respond internationally respected Islamic Scholars. They will soon break down and expose themselves as what they are.... nutter extremists and not people fighting for Islam. They are, after all, only fighting for their perverted version of Islam.

This is something that we have not done before. One of the greatest sins in Islam is the sin of Apostasy. If the words of these extremists can be refuted, not by us but, by internationally recognized Islamic Scholars, these extremists can be exposed as Apostates. This is a powerful weapon.

We will never change the minds of the UBLs, but UBL needs minions. If, as a result of this public refuting of the extremist dogma, we can get just a few of the minions to have a spark of uncertainty, that can be the cancer that will kill al-Qaeda from the inside. All it takes is a few minions to just think to themselves "Is UBL right, or is there another way".

Without minions, UBL is just some old guy with wacky ideas hiding in a cave.

It will take time. al-Qaeda won't fall a week after the trials. Clearly, killing al-Qaeda minions is not getting us anywhere as al-Qaeda seems to be able to recruit them as fast as we can kill them. One could make the argument that our tactics is making it easier for al-Qeada to recruit.

This is why I feel we need to switch our weapons. They are perverting Islam to use it as a weapon against us, lets use Islam against them. If the perverted version of Islam is the prime motivator, then true Islam can be the motivator in a different direction. We stand to lose little and potentially gain a lot if we can "attack" the motivations if I can be excused for paraphrasing Clausewitz.

My opinions are not a perfect solution, nor is it guaranteed to be successful. But after 8 years, perhaps we could consider alternate means of combating al-Qaeda?