[Skybird]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

No offense meant but I can tell you don't.

No offense indeed, but for the most: true.

The two religions are very different, and bare very little resemblance to each other. Later Christians (Greeks mostly) borrowed from the Torah, and in several cases screwed up the meaning of what they borrowed. Christianity has almost nothing to do with Judaism other then having had borrowed from their writings.

Well, I did not say they are similiar, but the old stories in the bible are soemwhat influenced by the judaic tradition. You mention yourself the fore god in the mountain somwhere below. and that is the same god concept you find in the old testament. In both traditions, there is a reference to abraham being a fundament, cutting it short here.

Sure, there is a lot of conflict and war. It is an oral history of the Israelites, and there was a lot of warfare and violence during those times (as with everywhere else). There were also times of peace, prosperity, and innovation (such as during the reign of king Solomon).

Yes, but the 12 israeli tribes, at least I read that ands saw that in TV, have also behaved as conqueror and even rivals at times, and based on the divine promise and command to move to Kanaan. The landtaking in Kanaan took place under expulsion of foreign tribes there around the 14th or 13th century before Christ. This is being called for both in the Judaic Tarnach, at least I read, and is decribed in the Bible as well. The Israelites were not always fighting wars of defence only, nor were they always only the vicitms of foreign agression. Sometimes they also were the attackers and conquerors.

As for what is happening now in Israel, it is hard to have peace when certain groups keep sending suicide bombers and mortar/rocket attack the bordering cities and towns. Its not that the people of Israel don't want peace, but they are not going to leave Israel to get it (which is what the other side wants). So the fighting continues.

the Israeli present today is a chpater in nitself that we must not touch upon here. Also, it certainly is not as simplistic as you make it appear here. And this I say although for the most I defend Israel's policies.

That interpretation of the Judaic god is the one from their earliest history, when Yahweh was the fire god of the mountain. Also a lot of the earliest stories (genesis, the flood, etc) are also borrowed from other religions of the time, and altered to fit. The slightly more modern interpretation is that G*d is a balancing force, that every action taken by G*d in the stories was to balance out man's actions. For example god destroyed the pursuing army of the Pharaoh at the Red Sea, to balance out the killing of all the first born by the Pharaoh's order.

He also terrorised a father by commanding him to kill his son in order to see if he would obey, admitted, he stopped him short before the deed, but the terror for the father was real. What for? He caused a global genocide because his creation - made bis his own hands - was not like he wanted it to be: obedient. Why hasn't he created man accordingly in the first? This whole theory of God setting up challenges to man to test him, simply makes no sense and simply illustrate a truly psychotic, blood-thirsty behavior. A cynic who has intentionally designed man to be able to fail, calling that "free choice" and then punish man for being like he designed him to be - but wanting to be worshipped as a man-loving benefactor. That is not only cynical, that is sadistic. the bible holds quite many stories illustrating this kind of divine cyncism and sadism and thirst for penalty and blood. Man gets punished for God having created him the way he did. Great.

I don't believe most Jews view G*d in that way, but more of an enigma that we try to understand, but cannot ever understand. the Pharisees and then Rabbis, have continued to debate and ponder the meanings behind the texts, but it is not hair splitting as you put it. Philosophically they do believe that G*d does care about it's creations.

Yes, but to come to that image of a god while basing on the fire god just memntioned above - that really needs some form of creative thinking. That'S what I mean. that modern Judaism tends towards what you just described, was my novice view, too, although I did base on a limited fundament only, on some literature on Kabbala (ynd you know better than I do, I assume, how compex and difficutl a theme that is), when studying some interlinks between Kabbala and Tarot in certain esoteric systems.

Yes, Skybird knows and does Tarot. Now that will earn me some jokes, will it!

Your mixing up Christianity and Judaism. There is no specific salvation or heaven per say in the Jewish tradition, no hell either. That is an unaddressed enigma. The view is that Jews have a purpose in life, to bring the divine to earth, and bring earth to the divine, or achieve balance between the two.

Reminds of some more esoteric christian traditions, and the Christian mystics.

A lot of those teachings are not exactly new, and many were lifted from Jewish thinking (also from the Greek gnostics and others), many can't even be directly attributed to Jesus. To be a good Jew, you are to lead a good life, do your work in the world, do your mitzvah or blessings (good deeds basicly), find balance in your life, and show gratitude to G*d for what has been given you.

If that is all there is, one would wish that only more religious people would be like that.

Honestly Skybird, you don't realy know the first thing about the old Abrahamic cult as you put it. Unfortunately neither do most others, which I think contributes to so much anti-semitism in the world.

I never dealt explicitly with it in books on Abraham, but only indirectly in books about Islam, and Christian history (as matching the timeframe of Islam). But I am aware of these deficits of mine, at least. that'S why you will not read me writing about Judaism and Abraham as explicitly as I do about the relgion-atheism-confrontation, the church, Jesus or Islam.

Maybe I should add one or two books on Judaism and its theology and history, in the future. But currently too many other books are waiting.