[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Like hell nobody does. Instead of pontificating that only the US and US-approved states should have the bomb, why don't the follwing list of countries dismamtle their nuclear arsenals ? Usa, GB, France, China, Russia , India, Pakistan (oh yes a country much less reliable than Iran) and Israel (NK is a joke so I don't even mention it) ?

First lets start with some facts. Nuclear Weapon stockpiles

The leaders in that category are the US and Russia, who might I add have signed several treaties aimed at arms reduction. List of Nuclear Arms Treaties.By saying that you won't include North Korea, you invalidate your entire argument. They have weapons just like everybody else on the list.

What's good for us is not good for the rest of you it seems.
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, the US is not the world's dictator. Every country that wants and has the technological means and money to initiate a nuclear program civil and military should do so.
What will keep them in line is nuclear deterrance.
Hey it has kept in line the US and the Soviet Union for over half a century so it works. And I surely won't panick if Iran one day announces to the world that it posseses a nuclear arsenal.

I agree with you that the US is not the worlds dictator, but we are a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Lets take your country Italy for example. I'm quite sure that you have the means to go nuclear if so desired. Do you believe Italy should have the bomb as well, and for what reason? Nuclear Deterrence will only work if Iran or Iraq does not intend on exporting (legally or otherwise) fissile material to a third party, and to sustain a nuclear arsenal for itself. And I would say cooler heads has kept the US and the Soviet Union in line for half a century, not just deterrence.

Originally Posted by goldorak

Oh so you worry about religous fanatism.
What do you think about Pakistan ? I remember that India and Pakistan had already engaged in border wars and sometimes they even talked about deploying nuclear weapons. Thats a real escalation, not the North Koreans having 2 tiny bombs with no means to deliver it half way around the world.
Iran is not the world's scapegoat and neither is North Korea.

If I recall correctly India and Pakistan had a "Test off" where they were doing bomb tests during one of those border disputes. I would like to say that the only one that would have been affected by a nuclear exchange would have been India and Pakistan, but I think that's a little wishful thinking. Now for North Korea they don't have to bomb the US directly. They are more than capable of bombing South Korea or Japan, which would elicit a response from the US. What that response would be would be hard to say. What are North Korea and Iran a scapegoat for? Am I missing out on some sort of salacious scandal?

Now if you look at the middle east, yes the Iranians have "talked about wiping Israel", but its just talks. Facts not words are important. And the facts are that over the last 30 years, Iran is one of the only countries to never have attacked Israel. Syria yes. Egypt yes. Gordan yes.

Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all border Israel. It's a little easier to attack a country when you border it. So it stands to reason that Iran would have a harder time attacking.

Iraq had attacked Iran in one of the bloodiest wars ever seen, Iraq had gased it own citizens, it has attacked and conquered Kuwait. Israel has attacked Iraq, invaded southern Lebanon etc... And considering Israel has a pretty consistent nuclear arsenal if you want a nuclear free region then it is Israel that has to dismantle its arsenal. But you cannot fault Iran for wanting a nuclear arsenal of its own. It just makes perfect sense.

Israel to the best of my recollection has never made any statement regarding a first strike but maintains its arsenal as a defensive measure against attacking countries. And with a track record like you stated for Iraq, would anyone trust Iraq with nuclear weapons?

The conspiracy theories accorxding to which once Iran gains nuclear weapons it will give them somehow to Hezbollah or other terrorist groups is just nonsense. If you think this is a possibility than for god's sake you better be scared of the Pakistani situation. But no, worse countries than Iran are allowed to have the bomb, and it is these countries that represent a real danger.

Any country is capable of nuclear proliferation, some just seem to be more willing to proliferate than others (i.e. China and North Korea).

Originally Posted by goldorak

If you really think that a single man (in this case Ahmadinejad) can launch single handly a nuclear strike on Israel or any other country, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Even in the case of the US, the commander in chief alone cannot launch a nuclear strike. The same thing in GB, France, Russia or Cina or every other nation that posses a nuclear arsenal.

Just because you develop nuclear weapons doesn't mean they come with their own rules. Any country can setup any system it wants pertaining to the release of nuclear weapons. So how much for that bridge and where is it?

Originally Posted by goldorak

My personal opinion (and surely it is not politically correct in any sense), is that the US picks on Iran and NK simply because the seem to be easy targets.

Not because they have lunatics in power? And I would hardly call political pressure from more than just the US as picking on an easy target.

Resolving the whole nuclear proliferation issue would require to bring Israel to the table and put them in front of the facts.

The fact that they are a Jewish state surrounded by Muslim countries that have attacked them repeatedly?

It would require the 3 most volatile nations on earth, India Cina and Pakistan to abandon all nuclear ambitions. But since those countries are allies of convinience of the US, lets pretend they don't represent a threat to regional any maybe global scale.

What sort of alliance does the US have with China? India? Pakistan is letting us use some of their Real Estate but for a mutual interest, that's about the only thing close to an alliance there.