[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The state does make grocery decisions for you.

Yeah, to some extent, and I hate it. Don't even get me started on the FDA and/or agricultural subsidies. Nonetheless, free choice is the rule rather than the exception in that area of the market. Private producers and retailers, vying for private dollars, have provided a bewildering array of food products at ever-lower prices. Our food market is so good that we actually have a problem with obesity, despite the fact that we sell and give away milions of tons of food to other nations every quarter. We also possess some of the largest and most profitable agricultural firms in the world. Companies like Con-Agra and General Mills literally set the global standard for food goods, and they do it without state direction.

The point I was making, however, was that no one of sound mind in this country would willingly let the state run grocery stores or make purchasing decisions for them. Well, maybe some would, but we'd have food shortages faster than you can say "breadlines".

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I suppose since it costs the most it must be the best?

Not at all. It's the best because the free market provides competitive incentive. Private healthcare in the US generally is the best in the world, which is why patients the world over flock to our shores for treatment.
Where it falls down and becomes extremely costly is wherever the state is involved. About 25% of our ridiculously huge federal budget is spent on medicare and medicaid, and those programs are bar-none the worst the US has to offer. Just ask people who use them. The AARP(American Association of Retired Persons) spends a good deal of its' time and money breaking down the doors of Congress to demand more money for medicare and medicaid because their constituents are not happy with how the system works now. They think that more funding is the answer, but it isn't.

Case-in-point: The US education system. 90-something percent of all pre-university US students attend public schools, and about half of them are inexcusably stupid. Many do not graduate high school. They can't spell, they can't read well, and they have a only a tenuous grasp of mathematics. I dare anyone here to champion the US education system, any takers?

We are known worldwide for being stupid, largely because of our state-run public education system. The US spends more per student than any other country in the world, and yet we lag behind many of those nations. Why do you suppose that is? Could it have something to do with the fact that taxpaying parents have to pay for public schools whether their child attends one or not? Is it because teachers' jobs are protected by unions? Could it maybe be associated with a lack of competition and lack of incentive that such a system breeds? Perhaps the government "option" for education has crowded out private competition by virtue of the fact that people pay for whether they want it or not and only have a finite amount of income Sounds a little like the proposed healthcare "reform", doesn't it?

One would think that in a universally desirable system people would not be afraid to get sick. One would think that the main reason people go bankrupt would not be medical debt.

Actually, we have the opposite problem. People here suffer mostly from hypochondriasis and jurosomatic illness. They get "sick" because the state provides a mechanism for them to profit from it. If you would like, we can discuss the ADA(Americans with Disabilites Act) and the implications of it.

I don't believe that the healthcare system in the US is either the best or the worst in the world. The system in this country is fairly awful right now, but I don't know anyone who's going broke because of medical bills. You pay for hospital care if you don't have insurance, but the maximum you can pay in any one year is €750, regardless of treatment. And if you can't afford that, the government pays it. Friend of mine had a serious heart attack on Friday, two operations later and he's back at home doing fine. Not exactly a nightmare.
Other countries do it better than Ireland, though. Thinking of France/Netherlands.

I won't pretend to know the dynamics of your healthcare system, but your apparent dissatisfaction with it would lead me to suggest that it might benefit from a little healthy competition.

Speaking of competition; if there is one area where Europe has the US beat, it is in the arena of politics. Europe has many political parties and nations competing for their individual interests. The US does not. That is why government works in Europe(not really well, though) where it fails in the US. We only have two parties, and they might as well just be one party. If it weren't for constitutional limits on state power our state would have failed long ago, and even those are steadily being overcome. The incentive provided by competition is a key factor in the performance of any societal system.

Competition makes things better, cheaper, and faster. That is the very essence of it. It is also the definition of social equality. Let those who risk capital reap the rewards and punishments for their actions. If they risk more, should they not stand to gain or lose more? Competition is the mechanism by which you build any successful society. Fiat monopoly is the means by which you destroy the same.

Lassiez-faire,

James