[Enigma]

Boy oh, boy. Where to start? I'm freezing to death out here, and I have about 30 mins. I'll do the best I can, but I'm not going to worry about my spelling and punctuation. Be warned.

@Enigma
So, what is a reasonable point Those that did not get caught up in living on credit are to pay for those that did. That is the point. This money could be going to infrastructure projects, schools, medical. Exactly what Obama wants to do. But, no, this money is going to people who spent beyond their means. Does this in any way, shape or form seem right? Does it seem fair? Should these people in foreclosure be left to burden what they brought on themselves? What is your answer to this? I'm not interested in a liberal, republican or the stimulus. This housing issue is above the 7+ billion dollar bail out. Let just say, hey Enigma, we need you to give your neighbor $100.00/month (just as a figure) to save his home. When can you start cutting the checks? What would you do in a situation like this? Nothing hateful here. I'm just wondering what you think should be done with your $100.00 a month.

First of all, let me say that me paying for Bob who got himself into a home he couldn't afford doesn't seem the least bit fair.

Now, the focus of Obama's plan is to stabilize home prices, and to slow the destruction of home ownership here at home, a root that which is destroying our economy. It will give millions of people in this country the opportunity to rebuild financially, not all of whom are "losers" and "irresponsible". Many, many hard working responsible people are losing their homes as values depriciate and they find themselves unable to refinance. A 5/1 arm was agreat deal on an affordable home 5 years ago. Today, that same mortgage is worth more than the home is worth due to slumping prices and immediate area forclosure, therefore, that person's loan is now adjusting, and the payment is going up 3, 4, $500 a month. The option to refinance does not exist. Therefore that person ends up defaulting, another foreclosure on the block brings surrounding properties an even lower value, and the dominos continue to tumble. Bringing down the rate of foreclosures is good for the entire country. It's essential at this point if we want to slow or stop the nose dive of our economy.

It is estimated that "6 million families could lose their homes over the next three years in the absence of government action."

Now, Part A) of this plan helps folks who are still current on mortgage payments, but cannot refi because they are upside down in their home,a nd are paying on large interest rates. This is our guy from my example above, before he goes default ont he loan. (an adjusted borrower on a 3/1 or a 5/ ARM) These folks should be the priority, and they are. These are responsible borrowers who should be able to refinance and should not suffer at higher rates because of the tumble of the value of their home. It's win - win.

Part B) provides incentives to lenders to allow people who are in danger of foreclosure to refinance and alter terms to make the payment affordable, because they can't keep up with the current payments. Your question comes into play here. I don't want to pay for people who got a home they shouldn't have/cant afford. I do however, want to help the guy above, who got into a 5/1 with the best of intentions, and is now stuck in an adjusted loan because he is upside down. How we distinguish between the two is unclear as of yet, but I'd certainly be on the side of having a way to do so.

Your question is completly valid. Does the plan compensate for home owners who purcahsed out of their means? Do people who lied about income or assets benefit? It's unclear at this point. Republicans are asking these questions, and I'm grateful that they are. My feeling is that it has to. It absolutly has to. If you entered a loan fraudulantly, you are on your own.

Ramble ramble...to the point: Do I think It's fair that I pay for someones irresponsible mortgage bail out. No. I do think that saving as many homes as we can int his country is absolutyl critical to the economy. Before I was out of a job, I'd see people on a daily basis who had gone into an affordable loan and are now upside down with an adjusting rate, and who will eventually foreclose if they cannot get help. Simply put, the idea that all of this money goes to losers who are in a home they shouldn't be in, it's simply not true. Yes, they exist, in large numbers I'm sure. But the majority of folks losing homes in this country are not getting what they deserve, and you, me, and all of us as a country will be very negativly impacted if we continue to let the foreclosures continue at the rate they are, and do nothing. I hate the idea of paying for dead beats. But I'm on board with the idea of soem of my tax money going towards a program that I beleive will help slow or stop the current nose dive we are experiencing.

Fromt he Salon article I posted:

...It's important to know that there is a clear case to be made for using taxpayer money to reduce the number of foreclosures and help homeowners refinance their mortgages. On the negative side, foreclosures destroy economic value in several ways: transaction costs of foreclosure itself; reduced value of foreclosed houses and impact on houses in the neighborhood; reduced property taxes for local governments; and increased crime due to vacant houses. The death spiral of foreclosure-forced sales, falling house prices, and further foreclosures needs to be broken.

@ Enigma: If many Liberals thought that this stimulus was not the best, then why did very few if any actually say anything to stop it? Oh, the ole we have to do something over nothing bit. If a guy threatened to stab you or shoot you, which would you choose? Me...I would shoot the other bastard dead. And I would have demanded that this bill be stopped.

I congratulate you on possibly the worst analogy I've seen here at Subsim, and that's sayin' sumthin'.
Yes, I prefer doing something over nothing. Ain't that terrible?

From what I can tell, it was hatched in Pelosi's mind, and every Liberal just went along for the ride.

You think Pelosi wrote the Stimulus bill. Mmmkay. Well, no some Dem's voted against it.

If Liberals don't want me to tell two gay men they cannot be married, then this Libertarian doesn't want Liberals telling me how to be "patriotic."

Ok, I have no clue what one has to do with the other, I also don't know where or when you were called unpatriotic. You'll have to fill me in there.....

But not so smart that they claim to know how to redistribute other people's wealth.

Well, thats kind of the point. They are just against things. Theres no solutions or brainstorming going on, just simply against any idea that comes from any democrat at any time.

And then you post a link, presumably to support your position, but then it turns out to be a link to a liberal rant that proves nothing.

I'm a liberal. It's not a dirty word to me. And again, this is the point. My opinion, to many folks here, and to you apparenlty, = "A liberal rant". The article os somebody's opinion, just like the "rant" in the video the OP posted. what's the difference to you?

I can't make anything of your claim that 22 Republican governors suported the bill because you post no source.

...And I regret I mispoke (mistyped?) in my haste. There are 22 Republican governors. I didn't mean they all loved the stimulus. The information I had in mind is here

If you've got something to say, just say it. State your position. Otherwise many conservatives will just assume that you fall into the category of "sheep-like liberal"

Honestly, bro, I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference how much sense I do/don't make to a lot of the folks here. They are not interested in debate or conversation or any opinion coming from the mouth of a dirty liberal like me. The word Liberal is thrown around on this forum as if it were the Antichrist, a disgrace, unpatriotic, godless, and not worthy of opinion. And, again, I welcome their hatred. I know plenty of reasonable people who disagree with me. They find no need to hate me as a result. I can't say the same for some of the people here.

Again, sorry for the haste and I'm sure this post will be a giant pot hole filled mess, but It's 32 degrees and I have a horse to round up.