[Aramike]

Aramike - just accept that we see this differently.

We all seem to see it differently from you.

I am fully aware that this is not a war in the conventional sense. As I pointed out - there are no armored columns to attack, no well defined "front line". To say I don't "get it" when I have pointed out the same thing - and agreed with you on that point, is to try to discredit me with untruths.

What were the untruths, exactly?

What I explicitely stated was that you don't get it as you keep trying to draw parallels with WWII.

How is that an untruth, exactly?

I would have hoped any debate could have at least dealt with facts and views, versus attempts to discredit with falsehoods. I have to say, I see a rather leftist approach - if you can't convince your opponent to accept your point of view - you discredit him by lying about him.

Getting a little desperate, there? I responded, POINT BY POINT, specifically to what you said (a favor your certainly haven't returned).

Now you're whining about "lies"? No lies, here. Did you happen to notice how unpopular your position on the War on Terror is? Why you'd think anyone would need to lie in order to debate it is beyond me.

You don't have to accept my point of view. Doesn't mean I have to shut up about it. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

also have to laugh - because you do this - while calling my views "stalinist". Seems to be a bit of irony there.

That isn't even remotely ironic. I suggest you look the word up.

I'm not trying to shut you up - I'm merely refutting your points. Obviously that is disturbing to you, and you'd prefer I'd shut up, but oh well.

Now - I will thank you for one thing though. You clarified an important point - and that is that you see no clearly defined parameters for Victory. No wonder you say the war cannot be won - because you wouldn't recognize victory even if you had it.

Garbage rhertoric.

The nature of the War on Terror is that it cannot be won.

Victory against terror requires the following two conditions are met:

#1 Those that would use violence against innocent civilians to force any group to conform to their will under the batter of religious dogma are no longer able to find succor and support or haven by any nation or group.

Impossible to attain. Terrorism can breed in basements as well as open encampments. It is completely impossible to prevent terrorism from merely adapting to those circumstances.

#2 Those that would commit such atrocities under the guise of religious ferver are shunned instead of allowed to hide and multiply. Where their acts of hatred are held to the light, and they cannot cowardly hide from the repercussions of their own actions.

You can't be serious. "...acts of hatred are held to the light..."?

I know you keep repeating this fantasy of simply informing the world and having them fall into line, but their acts of hatred are already well-illuminated, thank you.

Oh, and the very nature of "hiding" has nothing to do with being "allowed" to do so.

With these two conditions met, terrorism as we know it today - and by that I am speaking purely of the violent physical kind (though there other types), would pretty much cease to exist.

And what precedence do you base that conclusion upon? Me thinks its pretty pie-in-the-sky.

Now - let me be clear - I am not naive enough to think my policy would wipe terrorism off the face of the earth. You will always have some wacko out there. But the idea here is to make the world - and yes that includes those "moderate" muslims - realize that continuing to allow these elements to exist - hiding among the everyday people - comes at too high of a cost.

You have not researched the Muslim world at all, have you? They believe that the Masjid al-Haram, the most sacred place in the Muslim world which is located in Mecca, has been destroyed and rebuilt again and again. If someone were to be so stupid to destroy it in response to extremist terrorist elements, you'd ally the ENTIRE MUSLIM WORLD in OPEN WAR against us. They call that "jihad".

Good job, Mr. President. The terrorists win. That's their whole damned goal.

I'm not going to go over the rest of your justifications because there is no need. Everyone here seems to get it (conservatives and liberals) - except you.