Aramike - just accept that we see this differently.
I am fully aware that this is not a war in the conventional sense. As I pointed out - there are no armored columns to attack, no well defined "front line". To say I don't "get it" when I have pointed out the same thing - and agreed with you on that point, is to try to discredit me with untruths. I would have hoped any debate could have at least dealt with facts and views, versus attempts to discredit with falsehoods. I have to say, I see a rather leftist approach - if you can't convince your opponent to accept your point of view - you discredit him by lying about him.
I also have to laugh - because you do this - while calling my views "stalinist". Seems to be a bit of irony there.
Now - I will thank you for one thing though. You clarified an important point - and that is that you see no clearly defined parameters for Victory. No wonder you say the war cannot be won - because you wouldn't recognize victory even if you had it. Now do not take that personally - it is not meant that way. But in your view, its obvious that victory is unreachable because it cannot exist. This is where we have our biggest disagreement. I CAN define what victory in the war on terror is very simply. Allow me to do so.
Victory against terror requires the following two conditions are met:
#1 Those that would use violence against innocent civilians to force any group to conform to their will under the batter of religious dogma are no longer able to find succor and support or haven by any nation or group.
#2 Those that would commit such atrocities under the guise of religious ferver are shunned instead of allowed to hide and multiply. Where their acts of hatred are held to the light, and they cannot cowardly hide from the repercussions of their own actions.
With these two conditions met, terrorism as we know it today - and by that I am speaking purely of the violent physical kind (though there other types), would pretty much cease to exist.
Now - let me be clear - I am not naive enough to think my policy would wipe terrorism off the face of the earth. You will always have some wacko out there. But the idea here is to make the world - and yes that includes those "moderate" muslims - realize that continuing to allow these elements to exist - hiding among the everyday people - comes at too high of a cost.
George Bush tried it one way - by offering some level of hope to people with the thought that they would reject extremism. That attempt has been, at best, marginally effective. He believed that people - given a taste of freedom - would not allow it to be taken. Some have held strong with a willingness to fight for their freedom. Others have given in to the fear of retribution by extremists. All in all - not an overwhelming success. Plus, speaking on what is best for the US - we should not be in the business of "nation building" or giving the citizenry of another nation jobs and hope when so many here lack the same. Ultimately, his thought was to give them something they could not abide to lose to extremism - that something being freedom.
Sun Tzu once offered a pearl of wisdom regarding war. It is not always in the striking of the enemy that one wins, but it striking that which the enemy cannot lose that brings them to surrender.
By refusing to see the enemy as Islam
in its current incarnation -
bent on a worldwide theocracy - you cannot fight your enemy with any hope of success. By seeing the enemy - we can see what they cannot lose - and that is the foundations of their beliefs. Can we try other measures - of course - I have advocated that - but if it ever is a push comes to shove situation - I will make a target out of that which my enemy cannot lose. By doing so I can force them to take a different path of action. One that forces them to police their own so that they do not lose what they hold closest to their heart.
Take what your enemy cannot lose, and you will have the path to victory.
And you cannot honestly think that the majority of "moderate" muslims in the world would sit quietly by while the extremists among them perform more acts of terror - when they know that those acts will cause retaliation that they - the moderates - will lose so much from. They would not. Now - the question is - where would they fall? Sure - the first time they will be against us - but when you hold hostage 3 other holy sites that they cannot defend - they will be forced to act to stop those whose acts would cause retaliation. Will they be happy about it? No of course not. So they are pissed. I can stand being disliked if we are safe. Beats the other option of being alternatively tolerated and blown up.