"They've spotted us, sir! Picking up E.S.P. alert to all Jap' ships in the world!"
 

On my desk sits four library books on the Norwegian resistance during World War II, "required reading" for me due to my decision to make the NOROP expansion. One of them is "Angrep i skjærgården", which details the actions of the Norwegian MTB flotilla 30/54, which operated against Germans in Norway from 1941 to 1945.

The last battle of the book details a skirmish between a type IXC (the U-637) and two MTBs (as a side note, you can look forward to this hectic battle as a NOROP single-player mission, as it translated pretty well to Silent Hunter III;)). The submerged u-boat spotted the two Norwegian MTBs, mistakenly identified them as German, surfaced anticipating escort to port, and wound up with fatal damage after the invetable Norwegian assault.

Now, one of the first things the boat did was to launch a red flare to warn the German forces in the area. This was also the case with Pol III, which is best known for single-handedly taking on a whole German task force (Kampfgruppe 5 en-route to Oslo) on the 9th of April 1940. A red flare was fired, alerting shore defences that an enemy was in the area.

This got me thinking: Is it feasable somehow for the developers could design a better comms system than the one in Silent Hunter III, where every single boat, plane, and gun crew belonging to a certain nation knows where you are the millisecond you're spotted? I know the game's relatively late in development and that the change might require engine alteration, but I still think it's a good idea.

Additionally, I think the AI, too, should have problems identifying contacts. The US bombers that bombed Tokyo after Pearl Harbour flew low over the surface to avoid being spotted from the air, and passed several boats on the way - all of which had crews that thought the bombers were Japanese and waved at them. Then, as mentioned in the Historical Missions thread, there's the poor US sub that got attacked by her own upon returning to Pearl Harbour.

So, in short, I propose that:

• Ships should only be alerted to your presences upon either detecting you or being alerted by radio message, flare, or other means. Or, of course, witnessing or hearing the distant battle. Discard the "instant universal knowledge"-system.
• The AI should not instantly identify contacts, and they should have a chance of incorrectly identifying them.

Discussion time. What do you think?

1. I'm 50/50 on this one. Once spotted and identified, radio waves travel pretty fast. Might consider adding in a 2-3 minute delay to allow the radio operator to send the message.

2. That might work both ways. How would you like to be returning from patrol and end up sunk by your own ships when they mis-identify you? It could become a real bug nightmare if you know what I mean.

Your watch crew could say aircraft spotted when in fact it is friendly, but then the friendly mis-identified you so you have to defend yourself, then you'd get dinged for destroying an enemy unit.

If an enemy identifies you as a friendly, then you have a sitting duck target. What good would that be? What if half a convoy thought you were friendly, the other half didn't?

Sounds like a bug nightmare scenario.

That's what I mean. It takes some time to order and send an SSS, it's not an instant thing.

How often did that happen in reality? Zero?

It'd be a pretty annoying scenario, yes, but I assume it's like being afraid of getting sunk by air raids in Grey Wolves: "Imagine loading up your tenth patrol and then dying from bombers before you can even leave port!". Horrific scenario, but does not really happen.

Have it depend on the circumstances. Self-defence kill of friendly: No penalty. Aggression against friendly: Penalty.

For you? Plenty.

And either way, there are plenty of sitting duck targets in the game already. Anchored ships are just one example.

Sounds bizarre to me. Isn't the convoy commanded by someone? If one ship identifies a sub as hostile, I think all ships would start zig-zagging regardless, and open fire if given permission to/ordered to? [/ignorant:oops:]

I'm in for the realism. How did the german uboats actually identify themselves when they returned to port? Radio, flag or flare..? When you think of it: Anyone situated on a coastal gun battery (Axis or allies) would like to know wether the dark shadow of a submarine was friendly or not... Friendly fire (or Blue-on-blue as we called it in the army) is commond, and there is a lot of stories about tragic incidents during WWII. I think this should be implemented in SHIV, i'll guess its too late for SHIII.

Øyvind: sjekk ut disse boklinkene hvis du tror de kan ha interesse for NOROP:

http://www.aschehoug.no/servlets/dis...oductId=677138

http://www.bokkilden.no/SamboWeb/pro...=130327&rom=MP

Om Black Watch's senkning i Kilbotn, sammen med U-711:

http://www.skovheim.org/located/trom...ch/bwatch.html

Interesting idea... :hmm: ... but I wouldn't like it one bit if after a succesfull mission I ended up being sunk by the coastal defences on my home port :dead: ... new features to the radio would have to be added in order for you to use it to communicate and identify yourself to friendlies.

Actually it did happen. One example was the USS Seawolf, which was sunk by the D.E, USS Rowell, after having been mistakenly bombed and marked by a US Navy plane.

Another example was the USS Nautilus which, after a shelling, noticed that one of the shells that hit her was a dud, bearing US markings.

There were several other incidents.

JCC

Not to mention the Dorado,which was sunk in the Caribbean by a U.S. Bomber.

The sad part about the Seawolf Incident was that the attack by the Rowell happened in a "no fire" zone. All U.S ships were notified that some of our subs were going to be passing through that area over the next few days and were not authorized to attack ANY subs in that area. What makes it worse is that after the first depth charge attack the Seawolf tried to communicate with the Rowell using it's sonar...I assume in morse code...but since the Wolf wasn't using the "recognition code of the day" the Rowell decided that it was a Japanese sub trying to trick them and proceded to fire a hedgehog salvo...and since the Wolf wasn't attempting any evasion maneuvers it is believed she was hit by at least two of them.

Course the Captain and crew have always maintained that they sunk a Japanese sub and not the Seawolf,even when the war was over and captured Japanese docs showed that the only IJN Sub anywhere near that area was never even detected...let alone attacked.

IMO That Captain should have been relieved of command and courtmarshalled for his disregarding of orders and the Japanese should have given him a medal for his taking out the notorious Seawolf.

Of course. Radio, flares, morse code by lamp, and whatever else they had. Not just for identiying you, but for requesting new orders, reporting this and that, and alerting others of enemies.

If it happened in real life, then i'm all for it being put into the game.

If it's not in the game, I bet someone will try and mod it.