Potential SH3Cmdr Randomisation module - f'back needed!
 

With Hemisent's progress on the Thermal Layer and Sabotage mods, I got to thinking last night during the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony (did that actually make sense to *anyone*???) about creating a module for SH3Cmdr that will allow modders to add any randomisation events that they want. I envisaged the structure to be like:

[FILENAME]
FileType=[B for Binary or T for Text]
Section=[For text files, the section that the value sits under]
[KeyName if text file, offset if binary file]=[I for integer, Fx for float, where x is the number of decimal places|LowerBoundaryValue|UpperBoundaryValue|Y for randomise mid patrol, N for not]

So, using live examples:

[SIM.CFG]
FileType=T
NbSections=1
0_Section=AI Detection
0_Lost contact time=I|15|45|Y ;Randomises the time Escorts spend looking for U-Boats after losing contact

[SCENE.DAT]
FileType=B
691=I|256|480|N ;Randomises wave height between 1 and 2 times. 691 is the MaxWaveHeight offset value - obtained from any TT tool - this is just an example and not a feature of SH3Cmdr
975=I|0|20|N ;Randomises water density between 0 and 20. 975 is the UnderwaterFogEnd(Fog) offset value - again, just an example

This will remove the need to use the Random folders for (hopefully) everything other than graphics.

Anyway, these are just my initial thoughts - I'm sure the concept will expand as I (nay, we) think of more ways to use it, like allowing text/label randomisation...

To see whether this is worth it, would people see value with this approach? What other events could you see it being used for? Or what other events would you *like it* to be used for? My view is basically *any* value in *any* file could be randomised. The one limitation I see at the moment is that randomisation would be independant. That is, there'd be no connection between the randomisation of one value and another. Although, I'm sure I can come up with a solution if I actually think about it! ;)

You Know where my vote lies on this

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: The game would be great.

DO It Man Dooooo Ittttt

:up: :up:

I am only commenting on this item, not the idea etc

Lost contact time...

this value is already rediculously low, even in 1939 they spent up to 36 hours. Again, not always, it all depended on obligations and the 'yer we killed him'

But to reduce the 40 minutes....

Graphic, Music, Sounds Effects, & Speech! :) I don't think your numbered directory's should be removed! :o

No disagreement there - but you have to factor in SH3. Set the value to anything much higher than 40 and then the escorts lose contact with the convoy they're guarding, meaning that if you evade them, you'll have a potentially unescorted convoy to pick at while they chug back at their preset speed. That's where the balance between reality and simulation is required.

But, if players want to set the time to between 40|2160, nothing's stopping them, even now... ;)

Anyway, stop highjacking my thread! :P

There's no plan to remove the Random folders - they'll stay. This is just (hopefully) an easier way to randomise the values in already existing game files.

Sounds like a very good plan indeed!! :yep:

It will save me some hard disk space as I have dat and cfg copies everywhere in the random folders.

What kind of things do you randomise?

For me there is a list that would have potential

Zones.cfg the whole doc = essential and will probably do for many players, not just the numbers but also the ability to change special effects.

Basic config = essential, medals, renown, fatigues etc etc

Sim cfgs = Highly desired

Airbases = Highly desired

Now if it is possible to do same for the .zon files concerning DC, shells, and sensors = Extra cool

I suppose a logical order would be required,

1. Damage first as it would be the easiest to do (for me anyway). It would also satisfy many players in the random whom just want slight changes.

2. Enemy behaviour second (a bit more thought needed but at least loses the predictability and adds the unkown)

3. Sounds, effects and graphical i.e. waves, sea colours, weather,

The strengh in your system would be the ease of preparing a randomised event.

The potential weakness would be that it may be difficult to add the one of i.e. 1 in 100 chance of a special events I would have liked to have added e.g. rapid flooding, fast sinkings, single hedgehog/dc kills etc and complete set of duds.

If what you propose caould also have a line adding the probability of each change then fine. If not, itmay be best to go via the folders.

Pros and Cons

Re: Potential SH3Cmdr Randomisation module - f'back needed!
 

Perhaps you should add groups

[My mod]

[SIM.CFG]
FileType=T
NbSections=1
0_Section=AI Detection
0_Lost contact time=I|15|45 ;Randomises the time Escorts spend looking for U-Boats after losing contact

[SCENE.DAT]
FileType=B
691=I|256|480 ;Randomises wave height between 1 and 2 times.

[/My Mod]

Ref

Yeah, why not? As long as you know the offset you will be able to randomise the values stored in the binary files as if you had manually changed them via one of TT's tools.

I don't go radically overboard when randomizing anything. Little changes on some of the files don't seem like alot till you get in the game.

I randomize crew visual ranges, not big changes but little ones to simulate "off" or bad mood days (don't go too far cause crew morale and efficiency can really mess with these)

The wave amplitude and attenuation, the lost contact time, and the detection time\sensitivity in the sim.cfg

Small changes in the airstrike.cfg for probabilities and logic steps for attacking.

Ranges in the ai_senors.dat

Bomb damage in the bomb.sim

Ranges in the sensors.dat

Different smoke effects (found in forums for MiniTweaker) in the particles sections of Tweaker. A little randomization of the smoke effects makes the game seem a little more real.

Have tried to change the flooding speed in the submarine sim files but have weird behavior or no noticeable effects in the sim.

Factors in the sensors.cfg

Taking away and adding different .ogg messages for the crew to speak. (msgogg)

Different loadout for the planes (bombs, lights, etc...)

And the usual graphics tga's and sounds.

Most changes are very slight, but the difference of a couple hundred yards in game adds a little element of surprise and a human factor to it I guess.

Brilliant,

What about the 1 in 100/0 chance examples, could you devise a method in your method that would allow probability also or would that be unrealistic?

Also could you make this date specific i.e. occur within timeframes set in game i.e. 1943 settings.

With regards to you being able to do zon files,

I would definitely like to have the ability to offset certain sensors for DD's.

Just small changes that mean I am detected earlier than thought through hydrophones or have managed to slip the screen of visual spotters for a surface night attack (Im sure you get the picture).



My key to a good game is one that forces the me to ask myself the following questions:-

Do I or do I not take the chance, If so what consequences/payoffs will happen to me?.

I do not want to know exact rules i.e. ranges, responses and damage taken apart from the basic rules of reasonableness for that time period. If it was reasonably foreseeable for something to happen then it should have a probability of it happening.

Everything else is down to luck and fate and I like that part the most.

I was thinking more of a seperate application (probably within the SH3Cdr GUI) and not SH3Cdr handling directly radnomisations (if I understood correct from your first post). This application I am thinking would be the equivalent of JSGME, FOR the random folders of SH3. It would help modders to organise dates and folders and remove / install any Random (c) Mods.

This "application / functionality" would just support the modders in hectic tasks, not actually assuming / performing any randomisation of values. Also the choice of variables to be randomised and the variables mix (ie. strong planes, weak subs, normal DDs vs. weak planes, normal subs , uber DDs) has to be made by modders.

"The one limitation I see at the moment is that randomisation would be independant. That is, there'd be no connection between the randomisation of one value and another".

Trying to think ahead, I imagine Random (c) Mods for every aspects of the game. This probably requires groups of similar variables to be changed in the same "direction" game-wise.

DITTO!!!

Right now my brain is fried attempting to come up with believable ratios for the Sabotage thing-People had problems with a simple 10 folder setup in the Thermal layer mod. I cannot imagine what will happen if I have to write it for 40, 50 or even 60 folders.