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- - Sweden (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=245089)

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Sweden: No lockdown, well educated population, fair healthcare system.

Really?:o They sound more of like a bunch of sheep than educated people.

https://quillette.com/2020/05/12/swe...on-of-liberty/

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In reality, Sweden’s response to the pandemic has less to do with freedom and individual responsibility, and more to do with the country’s tradition of consensus and social control.

Among the Swedish public, however, the country’s state epidemiologists are perceived as authoritative.

In Sweden, homeschooling is viewed as a violation of children’s right to participation in public life, and possibly an indication of abuse. Ultimately, keeping children out of the school system is an offence for which parents can be separated from their children. No one has had their children taken from them during this crisis, and it isn’t likely that anyone will, but schools are threatening parents with messages like this one, from a principal in southern Sweden: “Those healthy children who do not come to school violate the law and after a longer period of inexcusable absence you will be called to a meeting with the principal, thereafter the social services may be contacted.”

Even though Sweden has taken a path that is extreme compared to virtually all other EU countries, there is limited overt political opposition, and scientists who have criticized the strategy have been victims of vicious attacks on their characters, and are rejected at public events.

But collectivism is deeply ingrained in Swedish culture—for good and ill—and many view it as bad form to question the authorities in the midst of a crisis.

Ultimately, the issue comes down to the Swedish strategy to allow the virus to spread until herd immunity is attained. One may or may not agree with such a strategy. But for a government to decide that more than half of the population is to be infected by a virus such as COVID-19, and in effect to prohibit families with schoolchildren from opting out of the herd, hardly rings of individual freedom.

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Sweden - Population 10m - Fatalities 3,256
Australia - Population 25m - Fatalities 97

Australia went early (before WHO made any move at all). Aussie lockdowns and social distancing as well as economic responses have all been common sense and stand us in good stead.

There are many countries that have far better outcomes than Sweden.
Singapore is far denser in population per sq/km, but with a population of 5m has 21 fatalities, and people are in far closer proximity.

The actual results of the Swedish v Lockdown numbers seem to be quite clear in the data (ie facts).

The romantic approach that the Swedish model is superior seems to be pretty fatal. However, as with much reporting from all sides of the spectrum the romantic libertarian approach seems to be a whole bunch of nonsense and fatal to locals.

You will not question, I will educate your children, you will obey.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Full_Image.jpg

As I believe the US Science Fiction author John Ringo is reputed to have said: "Foreigners are, well, foreign!".:03:

The Swedish Government decided to do what they did knowing they would have the support of their general population, as far as I'm concerned let them get on with it.

The eventual outcome will be an interesting comparison of different approaches, anyway.

Mike.:hmmm:

Let me give the main different between Denmark and Sweden regarding schools

In Denmark there is compulsory schooling
While
In Sweden there is school attendance

So there you have it-the Children in Sweden must attend their school, so says the law.

Markus

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Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2670405)

The biggest thing that defines the difference between the countries.....ABBA

lol I think it more than just ABBA. Of all the nordic countries they have the highest death rate. Could it be said the Swedish government and King have blood on their hands when they placed more importance on its economy than the lives of its citizens. (sound familiar? :roll:)

Why do the Nordic countries react differently to the covid-19 crisis?
https://nordics.info/show/artikel/th...vid-19-crisis/
Sweden goes it alone – why?

Unquestioning self-confidence:

Sweden is the only Nordic country, and one of the few countries in Europe, that has not closed its schools and introduced rigorous, legally enforced social distancing measures. It takes a lot of self-confidence in order to act differently than almost every other country. This is something that Sweden has to a greater extent than the other Nordic countries, which are more heavily characterised by the small state attitude, namely, that it is important to follow others. Identifying and explaining where this Swedish self-confidence comes from is one of the most difficult and exciting questions for philosophers and cultural historians interested in the Nordic countries. My own theory is that it is a question of temporality. Sometimes during the 20th century, the heyday of the Swedish model, an idea emerged that Sweden was one of the most modern countries in the world, and thus 'ahead' of other countries. So, if you, like Sweden, are at the forefront of human development, there is no point in comparing yourself with other less advanced societies. Instead, there is a willingness and a custom for solving every question independently.

Central role of the economy:

there is a strong tradition in Sweden of thinking that a functioning economy is a prerequisite for people's well-being and health. The security of the ‘folkhem’ could only be achieved through a strengthened economy, and conversely, the cruel social and psychical consequences of the 1990s-recession in Sweden and Finland are still fresh in people’s memory, particularly in Finland.

Swedes do what they are told:

In the other Nordic countries - perhaps especially in Denmark - Sweden has a reputation for being a paternalistic, prohibitive society, which appears not to be in keeping with the liberal attitude Sweden has had during the corona crisis. How does this add up? If you look more closely, it is arguably not so much prohibitions per se that the Danes make fun of, but how obediently the Swedes follow different recommendations. If Danish anecdotes are to be believed, when the Swedish public health authority (Folkhälsomyndigheten) recommends eating five slices of bread per day, then the Swedes eat five slices of bread per day.

Stalin could only wish he had more people like those in Sweden lol. The Swedish government must love ruling over so many lambs

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Right. You got a point there. I think the Swedish way of dealing with the big C is the wrong way. Their high death rates are no surprise. The reason for doing it differently, however, is not economical but epidemiological. But yes: The Swedish government have blood on their hands.

I do not want to comment on Your "Stalin and the Swedes" approach. You can do better than that, but one thing is for sure (And maybe Markus can add some remarks here, cause he is much more nordic than I am.):

There is a cultural difference between Scandinavia and the rest of the world: There is a strong feeling of belonging together in nordic societies. Don't call it Socialism, it's something else. When I spent a few months in Norway it was a big surprise for me that you could look up the amount of taxes your neighbor paid last year on a public website. Tax burdens in nordic countries are high and they are extremely high in Sweden, but most of the wealthy people are OK with this. Social insurance institutions are strongly supported. Lots of public money is spent on promotion of cultural activity, that is why so many fantastic (metal-)bands originate from Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

Putting the "Socialistic" label on Scandinavian societies is inadequate and ignorant. They have produced a high level of social cohesion, maybe this is a strange concept for a US citizen, but Scandinavia is standing strong.

So maybe you should cross the pond, sit at the midsummer fire, listen to blond girls singing and strumming their guitars while the moonshine schnaps is circulating. Man, I had a good time there...

Sweden has a high level of social cohesion?

Not so much when it comes to migrants, as recently as last year were we seeing reports of mass car torchings, occasional grenade attacks, women afraid to leave their homes at night in some areas like Malmo, police and emergency services coming under attack. etc
Sounds to me like Swedens got some problems with social cohesien it doesnt wasnt to admit, or deal with.
If you want 'multi culturalism' (which is nicer term for 'beef up your low birth rates by importing people') there are ways to do it so it actually works, While their intentions were partially good, Sweden appears to be rather cluless here and have done it in the worse way imaginable, taking in large numbers from a handful of demographics in short space of time, placing them in large sub urban concentrations rather than spreading them out, and they seem to have no real long term plan for integratating these people - especially their young.
The good migrants that have buckled down to learn swedish and tried to find work are having a really hard time getting any- some just giving up and leaving, and the not so good ones that dont care get about intergrating get bored will often wind up as thugs and start causing trouble.

If sweden is not careful, they will set them selves up for a permenantly segregated 2 teir societly like France (Paris suburbs in particular).
They will have a tough time fixing that and even if they do - it will take a generation or two, but i hope for their sake, they stop the denial (which is very dangerous) and demand a level headed reality check - preferably with out any pandering to counter productive far left and far right types screeching ideological nonsense.