TMO overhauled...too much overhauled?
 

Hi,

Beside my SH5 career, started one with SH4 and TMO 2.5 overhauled...and so far, have to say it's by far the most difficult and hard ever done with an SH serie :doh:

Am all for the realistic stuff, but might be a little bit too hard to close anything (but mainly warships) even at war start...(well, 1941).
Closing periscope depth is completely impossible, and closing even 110m depth often result in a detection...silent running of course, and thin profile offered.

Isn't it a bit too much? To be able to lock target at night, have to close at least 2200m...
(by the way, i run easier AI for TMO too!)

Your thoughts? Any tips?

Well, it has a lot to do with the conditions; attacking something, especially warships, during the daytime with clear blue skies and a dead calm ocean is usually not a very good idea. Even if you manage to get in close the enemy will see your torpedos coming a mile away (quite literally) and take evasive action. Rough seas or the cover of night can make all the difference though. Ducimus wrote a little essay about how the A.I behaves in the readme file that comes with TMO. It might be worth checking out :)

Yes, i agree with weather conditions. Problem is, with TMO 2.5, weather doesn't change from start till 20 days! (flat sea - cristal clear sky)...even whatever or how many restart i do.
It changes nicely after those critical 20 days or so, though.

I've noticed that as well on occasion, though it doesn't always seem to happen. It's weird though that sometimes the weather changes from day to day and other ttimes it's painfully slow. A while ago I got stuck in fog with zero visibility for something like two weeks. I had to torpedo ships only with the help of radar and hydrophone. Luckily it was just off the Japanese coast so I figured the risk of friendly fire was pretty low :)
Torpedo attacks in calm weather and good visibility get's much easier though later on when you get access to the electrical mk.18 torps that are completely wakeless.

As I have seen it explained, the idea of TMO was not to create a realistic simulation of the conditions in 1941 or any other time during the war. The goal was to simulate the tension and sense of risk. To paraphrase Ducimus, to make you think like a submarine captain. Here are some of Ducimus' own words:

"...stated goals are to make the pacific theater immersive and engaging to the player. Historical accuracy and realism (sometimes achieved by abstract means) is adhered to as much as possible, but some elements are taken with creative license in order to achieve its stated goals. Trigger Maru is also targeted for the "seasoned" submarine simulation fan, and some elements have been made harder in order to present a higher level of challenge then that provided the stock game, while at the same time, reducing some elements of the game that one may find annoying.
Trigger Maru also recognizes that "harder" is not necessarily "realistic", and stands in solidarity with the Real Fleet Boat "supermod" in this regard. If your looking for 100% historical accuracy without creative license, the author of Trigger Maru heartily recommends Real Fleet Boat."

If you want to be able to duplicate what you read in the history books, TMO won't work for you. The actual conditions in the early war months aren't like those in TMO. The argument is (and I admit I am putting words in other people's mouths) that the real sub skippers didn't know what the conditions would be at that point in the war. If they appear timid in hindsight, they didn't know what they would encounter. It's easier to be Mush Morton when you know in advance that you will be able to sink that charging destroyer in time.

Ducimus and those who enjoy TMO certainly have a valid point here. Personally, I have tried TMO and don't play it. I prefer RFB, exactly for the reason stated in the last sentence of Ducimus' quote above. At the same time, I understand what Ducimus set out to do. What's right for you is a matter of personal taste. As they say, YMMV.

I agree with everything BigWalleye says above, and can't add much else. I will say this though: Ducimus has said categorically that he is done modding forever and isn't going to touch TMO or any other of his mods again, ever. This means that complaining about it isn't going to change anything. Your choices are learn to like it or try RFB. Or GFO. Or FOTRS.

Easier AI for TMO.


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3542


:03:

Or learn to MOD and adjust it to your own preference. Also there are mods out there that adjust some of the factors in the game, search around and see what you can find.

It's a matter of experience and opinion, many of us found TMO too easy after learning how to defeat the AI and modded TMO to be more difficult.

There is a TMO with harder AIs ...

I also noticed a huge increase in persistence and aggravation once I had TMO+RSRD+TRAVELLER MODS installed. I do not find it over easy at all.

As far as your closing distances ... I have sat within 1500 yards of a task force without being detected until I fired. Yes I sank battleships and carriers that way and yes the sea state was a big factor in helping me survive without detection but ... I knew it would be. The AI's do not hear as well in a wicked sea state so I take advantage of it. I also have a habit(much to my crews dislike) of lining myself up 800 yards off the enemies course, coming to a full stop, going silent and sitting at periscope depth until I'm ready to fire.

I prefer to be practically run over ... shorter distances to fire means shorter reaction times for the AI. That translates to more tonnage.

Inside the Traveller Mod there is a Mod that sets the AI Escorts Harder. It is inside a folder called "EXTRAS (optional)" This is for TMO+RSRD I do not know if it will work for other mods.

The Trav mods changes some of TMO's AI values to make it a tad easier, because aspects of his mod are a tad harder. He includes in the optional mods folder a mod that restores the AI back to TMO's orignal settings.

Also, RSRD in itself makes TMO easier in that in rewriting the campaign settings, the crew ratings are generally lower.

Thanks. Some interesting reading here.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining about TMO even if it looks like. I love the work that has been done with it.
My career problem so far seems stick to the clear and flat sea not changing for weeks at career start, hence beeing detected almost each time...
Will see how it handles when weather should change!...hopefully.

Have to ask: is RSRDC make any change in weather? (don't think so)
And do we encounter as much ennemies in RSRDC as in TMO alone? (with single merchants)

RSRD doesn't effect weather.

Many debate less ships in RSRD, which isn't true, it probably has more traffic overall, but it is historic and tends to stay in historic shipping lanes.
Simply, it won't spawn traffic everywhere. The same with single merchants in RSRD, they stick to historic lanes and times.

Yes, there's always that.

("You can't do that! That's not possible! Only a top-notch modder can do that!" Of course that's how Ducimus himself got started modding.)

Trav mods has a weather mod that changes the weather