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-   -   I thought Iraq didn't have any WMD (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197351)

August 07-31-12 02:23 PM

I thought Iraq didn't have any WMD
 
I guess that was all just a lie?

http://news.yahoo.com/uk-experts-hel...144204378.html

Quote:

BAGHDAD (AP) — Britain will help the Iraqi government dispose of what's left of deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons, still stored in two bunkers in north of Baghdad, the British embassy in Baghdad announced Monday.The British Defense Ministry will start training Iraqi technical and medical workers this year, an embassy statement said. The teams will work to safely destroy remnants of munitions and chemical warfare agents left over from Saddam's regime. He was overthrown in 2003 following an American-led invasion.

Takeda Shingen 07-31-12 02:42 PM

If they were usable, he would have used them against the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an...09_Declaration

Quote:

The declaration contained no surprises, OPCW spokesman Michael Luhan indicated. The production facilities were "put out of commission" by airstrikes during the 1991 conflict, while U.N. personnel afterward secured the chemical munitions in the bunkers. Luhan stated at the time: "These are legacy weapons, remnants." He declined to discuss how many weapons were stored in the bunkers or what materials they contained. The weapons were not believed to be in a usable state.

August 07-31-12 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen (Post 1916446)
If they were usable, he would have used them against the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an...09_Declaration

Quote:

These munitions meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, according to the commander of the National Ground Intelligence Center. "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee. The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, though agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said.[114]
We were told there were no WMD's in Iraq. Obviously that isn't true.

Takeda Shingen 07-31-12 02:55 PM

So our postwar justification is now down to residual material in a pair of bunkers that were destroyed beyond futher use twenty years ago. Okay.

My question is why we didn't do anything to help clean those up while we were there all this time? It sounds like an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Seems to me that it would be the decent thing to do in both nation building and winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Herr-Berbunch 07-31-12 02:59 PM

I had a friend in the weapons inspection team, he said that it was futile, the Iraqis knew when they were turning up and moved it. They knew it, we knew it, but what can you do?

Here's my friend next to a waxwork of Saddam, can't think why he was chosen for the team.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4789/petesaddam.jpg

vienna 07-31-12 03:05 PM

Quote:

So our postwar justification is now down to residual material in a pair of bunkers that were destroyed beyond futher use twenty years ago. Okay.

My question is why we didn't do anything to help clean those up while we were there all this time? It sounds like an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Seems to me that it would be the decent thing to do in both nation building and winning the hearts and minds of the people.
Agreed on both points. To even imply that previously secured remnants justifies the conduct of the Iraq action is straw grasping in the desperate extreme by Bush apologist. The American people were lied to and our military servicemen have paid the price...

As for cleaning up, that is a very good question. In all the Bush years in Iraq and in the Obama years it does appear there was "no rush" to neutarlize what, as Takeda points out, is a potential environmental disaster. Particularly given the Bush administration's fervent frenzy about AMDs and the possibility of them falling into the wrong hands, it is indeed curious the AMD remnants were not destroyed/neutralized as a top priority. Also, why is the UK taking point on the disposal? It seems the US would bee the more likely entity to take the lead...

...

CCIP 07-31-12 03:06 PM

There is a slight difference between weapons and materials remaining from them. If these are weapons, then so are all the B-52s sitting at Davis-Monthan with their wings cut off, flagrantly in violation of previous treaties regarding them. Cause, you know, they'll be up and flying in no time...

Either way, the fact that Saddam DID have WMDs and did use them is not a question. The question is when. This doesn't add any evidence to the idea that he had any in 2003.

Herr-Berbunch 07-31-12 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna (Post 1916459)
. Also, why is the UK taking point on the disposal? It seems the US would bee the more likely entity to take the lead...

...

Probably because we were the first to use WMDs in modern(ish) warfare, and that was against Iraqis.

Or because we sold them to them in the first place, when they were good guys against Iran.

CCIP 07-31-12 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1916455)
I had a friend in the weapons inspection team, he said that it was futile, the Iraqis knew when they were turning up and moved it. They knew it, we knew it, but what can you do?

Here's my friend next to a waxwork of Saddam, can't think why he was chosen for the team.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4789/petesaddam.jpg

LOL :D

Did he ever dress up as Saddam to gain access into their facilities and/or Iraq's finest pubs? :O:

Herr-Berbunch 07-31-12 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP (Post 1916462)
LOL :D

Did he ever dress up as Saddam to gain access into their facilities and/or Iraq's finest pubs? :O:


That's the only pic of him with Saddam that I've seen, I've not seen him dress up, but surely it's only a matter of time. Maybe he was waiting for the threat of assassination to move on. :hmm2:

Takeda Shingen 07-31-12 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1916455)

PHOTO

Wow. It's almost a perfect double. :haha:

vienna 07-31-12 03:19 PM

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg26/...pg&res=landing


"BUMMER OF A BIRTHMARK, HAL"


EDIT:

Got the picture, but the caption didn't come with...


...

August 07-31-12 03:24 PM

Who said anything about justifying a war? The claim was made that Iraq had no WMD's. Not "No new WMD's", no WMD's. Obviously this is not true whether you want to admit it or not

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP (Post 1916460)
There is a slight difference between weapons and materials remaining from them. If these are weapons, then so are all the B-52s sitting at Davis-Monthan with their wings cut off, flagrantly in violation of previous treaties regarding them. Cause, you know, they'll be up and flying in no time..

Invalid comparison. There's a big difference between the remains of an aircraft and the remains of a Chemical weapon munition. For one thing just walking by the aircraft isn't likely to kill you...

CCIP 07-31-12 03:27 PM

Well, there's lots of things that can kill you when you walk by them. Spent nuclear fuel, industrial waste and large farm animals among these. The issue is whether you can put it in a warhead and launch it at a target. My understanding is that these did not qualify as WMDs anymore by that definition.

August 07-31-12 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1916461)
Probably because we were the first to use WMDs in modern(ish) warfare, and that was against Iraqis.

Or because we sold them to them in the first place, when they were good guys against Iran.


What WMD's did we use against the Iraqis?


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