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Oil Crisis Temp Fix?

As much as I DO NOT believe in the whole "oil crisis", I think I may have a solution that'll please both sides of the aisle.

About 10 years ago, US Navy dive crews drained the WWII USS Mississinewa wreck of 2.1 million gallons of oil.

Now I wonder, how much oil could be salvaged by draining the shipwrecks? If 2.1 million gallons were stored in just 1 tanker, how much could be in all the others?

This would not only increase our oil reserves, but would avert the possible future problem of oil leaking from them.

Your thoughts?

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Your thoughts?

:har:Maths.

Something like 21 million barrels are used a day. Far from that at 2.1 pumped from one wrecked vessel. How may vessels are full of oil to this degree sitting on the ocean floor?

What would the recovery costs be even if there were enuff Ships with
resources to make the idea plauseable?
I'd think the idea is about like bailing out an AirCraft Carrier with a Coffee Cup.

Nice try maybe, but it's not going to save the Ship.

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Originally Posted by privateer (Post 1704125)

No, but it could temporarily free up some gas money in the military budget.

The entire operation was actually pretty straight forward. 4 dive teams went down and drilled into the tanks, then a tanker hooked hoses to it and pumped it out.

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I'd think the idea is about like bailing out an AirCraft Carrier with a Coffee Cup.

More like a coffee cup with a big hole in it.

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No, but it could temporarily free up some gas money in the military budget.

:har: Maths again.
If you remove the pittance the watered oil fetched in Singapore when it was sold for recycling from the cost of the very expensive operation then how much of a massive loss are you left with on the project?

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The entire operation was actually pretty straight forward. 4 dive teams went down and drilled into the tanks, then a tanker hooked hoses to it and pumped it out.

Could someone be any further from the truth?

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Originally Posted by Anthony W. (Post 1704059)

About 10 years ago, US Navy dive crews drained the WWII USS Mississinewa wreck of 2.1 million gallons of oil.

How many gallons of fuel did the Navy use in this recovery operation?

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Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1704122)

Something like 21 million barrels are used a day. Far from that at 2.1 pumped from one wrecked vessel. How may vessels are full of oil to this degree sitting on the ocean floor?

To put it even more in perspective, there are 42 gallons in 1 bbl of crude. 2.1 million gallons in this tanker equals 50,000 barrels of oil. To make it a nice round number, let's assume we as a nation use 20 million barrels a day.

50,000 bbls / 20,000,000 = 0.0025

That's one quarter of one percent of America's one day oil useage.

The draining and pumping of the oil from the vessel was more than likely just a enviromental protection deal.

Not to mention it's likely bunker oil and nearly solid.

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Originally Posted by mookiemookie (Post 1704257)

let's assume we as a nation use 20 million barrels a day.

You're actually not far off, if you take 2009's stat into consideration:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2174rank.html

While we are on the topic of salvage operations, costs and thereof, i found this interesting read about salvage operations by Royal navy frigates btw 1950-164:
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Ops...Ops1950-64.htm

Here's something even more OnTopic, however, dated 1988, but it gives us some idea of what sort of policies and procedures, incl. costs go with salvage operations:
http://www.msc.navy.mil/instructions/pdf/m54202f.pdf

PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR THE INCOMING WALL OF TEXT, but, nonetheless ontopic and really a interesting read (i hope)

Take out of that:

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The following are excerpts from NAVSEAINST 4740.8, Salvage, Recovery and
Open Sea Spill Response Programs, dated 24 Jul 87. The selected excerpts describe
terms, conditions, costs, and policies with respect to Navy salvage support available to MSC

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The Navy provides salvage services to ships and aircraft under terms and conditions which
depend upon the ownership and status of the ship or aircraft requiring the service. Terms and
conditions for salvage services to United States naval ships and aircraft, ships of the Military
Sealift Command, and commercial ships and aircraft are delineated in Section 2.

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Military Sealift Command (MSC) ships fall into several categories. The category affects the
terms and conditions under which salvage operations are undertaken:
a. MSC Commissioned or In-Service Ships are Public Vessels of the United States.
Charges for salvage services rendered to them by naval forces are limited to out-of-pocket
expenses including fuel and water. If contractor services are provided, full contract rates are
charged.
b. MSC Contract Operated Ships are government owned ships with contractor crews.
When hull and machinery insurance is carried, salvage services are provided on the same basis
for MSC Chartered Ships. When hull and machinery insurance is not carried, salvage services,
are provided on the same basis as for MSC Commissioned Ships.
c. MSC Chartered Ships are required to provide full normal marine insurance. When
salvage services are provided to these ships by naval forces or under Navy contract, full per diem and out-of-pocket charges are made.

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a. Ships, Tugs and Floating Craft. Effective 1 June 1987 and subject to the rules set forth
herein, the following rates per 24 hour day or fraction thereof are established for salvage
(1) Salvage Ship (ATS) $25,000
(2) Salvage Ship (ARS) $23,000
(3) Fleet Tug (ATF) $21,000
(4) Fleet Tug (T-ATF 166 class)
with salvage crew $20,000
without salvage crew $18,000
(5) Rescue Ship (ASR)
with saturation diving system $24,000
without saturation diving system $22,000
(6) Large Tug (YTB) $ 5,000
(7) Medium Tug (YTM) $ 4,000
(8) Small Tug (TYL) $ 3,000
(9) Floating Crane (200 ton) (YD) $ 7,500
(10) Diving Tender (YDT) $ 3,000

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These rates set forth include the ship or craft, her operating crew, and the towing hawser.
Rates for types of ships and craft other than listed will be established on a case basis. Per diem
charges normally begin when the assisting ship leaves her berth or is diverted from her voyage
and end when she returns to her berth or resumes her voyage upon the completion of the salvage Operation

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b. Salvage and spill response equipment. When portable salvage, oil and hazardous
substance spill response or special equipment is used, a per diem charge is made for that
equipment based upon equivalent commercial rates. If commercial rates are not available, the
charge will be established on a case basis. Lost or damaged equipment is billed at replacement
or repair cost.
c. Billing on a per diem basis for salvage operations involving privately owned vessels is
solely a matter of policy. The Navy does not waive nor surrender the right to submit a salvage
bonus claim. Per diem billing is made on the express condition that the bills be paid promptly
and in full. Until receipt of payment, all salvage rights are reserved, including the right to
withdraw the per diem billing without notice and present a claim on a salvage bonus basis.
d. Because of the wide variety of equipment and skills used in salvage, search and recovery
and oil and hazardous substance spill response efforts, it is impractical to detail the charges for
each type of equipment or skill that may be required. The Supervisor of Salvage is guided by,
but is not required to adhere to, the Navy Comptroller Manual (NAVSO P-1000) when
determining charges for equipment for which there are no published rates. This manual also
provides a basis for computing statistical charges for services to public vessels and aircraft.

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Out of Pocket Costs:
Charges for salvage operations on privately owned vessels may include, in addition to the
per diem charges for ships and equipment, additional charges for certain out-of-pocket costs.
Out-of-pocket costs are defined as direct and documentable costs associated with providing a salvage service at a particular time and place. They may include:
a. Consumable materials, including lube oil, expended in the course of the operation for
the operation.
b. Fuel consumed and water (if any) procured.
c. Equipment lost or destroyed, damaged, or expended.
d. Repairs to equipment or ships directly attributable to the salvage operation.
e. Navy Industrial Fund charges.
f. Travel and per diem costs.
g. Civil Service employee overtime.
h. Transportation of Things (TOT).
i. Rental of commercial equipment.
j. Other specific procurements and direct charges.
Out of pocket costs may be documented by logs showing equipment usage and personnel
employment, copies of rate sheets, leases, agreements, travel costs, survey sheets, invoices, etc.
Where per diem charges are made for salvage ships and floating craft, there is normally no
additional charge for the first two items of out-of-pocket costs listed. Fuel, lube oil, water and
consumables expended in the ordinary course of operation of the salvage vessel are included in the per diem charges.

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Contractor Charges:
Contractor charges and fees for a salvage operation may be passed directly to the
customer. The contracts are administered by the Supervisor of Salvage and include rate
information. The Supervisor of Salvage will decide if the costs are to be passed on and will pass
them directly without addition to the organization requiring the service. Contractor charges are
documented by contract rates, invoices and supporting documents.

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Personnel:
Rates for additional personnel such as salvage masters, lift masters, Mobile Diving and
Salvage units and extra diving crews will be as established in the Navy Comptroller Manual and
based on military and civil service pay scales. Travel, per diem, and overtime expenses will be
charged at cost.

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Charges for Navy salvage services are independent of the values involved and of the
success of the operation. The user will be billed in the full amount, regardless of whether the
vessel is salved or lost, and irrespective of the ultimate success or failure of the salvage
operation.

SOURCE

Feuer Frei.
From your wall of text....
Lets play numbers on costs .
If you ignore all the previous attempts at diving and all the previous operations on the wreck once located and all the additional cost in both planning and setting up setting up stage of the recovery operation...ignoring all that huge expense plus of course ignoring about two hundred other major costs on the operation itself...
So taking the cost of just 1 salvage ship, two tugs and two ocean going barges on the job but without taking their travelling costs into account.
How many more dollars were spent than the thimble full of mixed oils sold for?

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The draining and pumping of the oil from the vessel was more than likely just a enviromental protection deal.

Spot on, any salvage operation is just a matter of course .....if it is going to show any profit.
Many oil recoveries from vessels are just a standard everyday proceedure....if costs and risk allow.
However, the only reason this very costly operation was undertaken was because the environmental damage on the lagoon would have been immense and the surveys showed that earlier diving operations to fix the leaks were not going to be sufficient do the job

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Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 1704398)

And here i thought that you were going to do the maths for us :O:
The wall of text highlights the enormous and exhaustive and behind the scenes costs involved for a salvage operation.
Which makes the OP's arguement dead and buried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer (Post 1704125)

I'd think the idea is about like bailing out an AirCraft Carrier with a Coffee Cup.

Excellent.:up: